Flexis = Win for the small punter!!

Dagz
2006 September 10 21:05:20 
Had my first introduction to flexis the weekend past with the all new Vic TAB offering.

For those small time punters like myself it gives us a chance to go wide in the multis and have a bit of fun. I am not prepared to risk $200 - $300 on a quaddie but am quite happy to have a play and take a small % of any potential dividend.

Plus just for fun wanted to see how it all worked so plucked out Danever and three random numbers in the first at Flemington and boxed them up in a trifecta for $5 (20.83% of the dividend).

Gotta love it when Danever and two of my random numbers come in and the tri pays $2.7k!!

Pessimists will see it that I just missed out on a really big collect but an optimist will say that I wouldn't have got it without the flexi option!! I'll take my smaller % anyday.

Perhaps the random numbers is the way to go as doing the form seems to get me nowhere!!

Cheers
Dagz
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8 Comments

Northbouy

2006 September 13 11:12:12

Well firstly, I don't play Keno, but I am one of the keno type punters you talk about. There are lots of me out there and the TAB knows this. The TAB wants to attract as much money to their pools as possible and so that is why they allow me to get on with a Flexi. I thank them for it. At the end of the day it still comes down to the same basic principles of totalisator betting. Whatever I spend on my tickets is what I need to get back to make a profit and 'steal' from you. i.e. if I spend 100 dollars on all my trifecta bets for the day and I collect less than 100 dollars its been a bad day. If I collect over 100 dollars its been a good day. Thats no different to what you are aiming to do with your full unit thick wedge of the pool bets.

If you papercut me with my ticket do I not bleed?

Cheers

North.

benny_g

2006 September 12 16:22:22

Are you still cranky about the Broncos losing Hitch??

Hitchcock

2006 September 12 17:20:32

Yes, Benny. But this is a separate issue.

I have nothing against pissant punters, except for when they are catered for at the expense of others.

There is absolutely no doubt that you do not get the value out of trifecta and first four pools that you used to get in NSW - and it's all because pissant Keno-ers are being catered for through flexis.

Bell Flight

2006 September 12 19:15:27

Poor old Hitchcock. I'll take a few F/F/F flexi tri's for 10 bucks on saturday in your honour! lol

AJDT

2006 September 12 15:01:03

Hi All,

This is from the rules of flexi betting from the NSW TAB:

Trifecta: In the event of investors not correctly selecting the first three places in correct order for at least 50 cents, the dividend pool jackpots.

If an investor selects the correct order for less than 50 cents, a dividend will be declared and the successful customer will receive their portion of the pool with the remainder jackpotting.

At least 50 cents is required on the winning combination for the entire dividend pool to be paid.

Regards.

Dawson

2006 September 12 15:49:27

Sounds fair enough AJDT.

My second example still stands though and still indicates that there is no detriment to bigger punters by allowing these flexi bets.

Hitchcock

2006 September 12 15:39:15

If people want to pick a whole heap of numbers and hope some of them come in so they can get a return, they can play frickin' Keno.

The Mighty Diva

2006 September 11 15:24:21

personaly i think all this talk about being ripped off his a loas of u know what.. the first year the mighty mare won the cup (makybe diva for the uneducated) i was living in nsw and had a flexi tri ..the diva to win from 12 horese for second and 17 horses for third...had about 18.57% of the divi.. try paid 13000 something in NSW tab and 12000something on vic tab who where not betting flexi,.. so you make of it what u want but the results show the tri paid more with the mob betting flexi than the mob not betting flexi.. now this is one race only i know but its the biggest race in the country..

i love the flexi and thank christ its finally got to viccy....i would never of had the tri if punting in vic only ..

the diva

doosra

2006 September 11 14:47:51

Hitch

What's happened to your face?

benny_g

2006 September 11 13:45:39

I'd like to see some kind of comparison of trifecta dividends between NSW and VIC tabs since the introduction of flexis.

I haven't noticed the NSW dividends being consistently lower than the VIC totes. Quite the opposite in fact. Whenever I get a trifecta (in VIC) it always seems to pay less than in NSW.

benny_g

kevin brest

2006 September 11 14:07:31

good observation benny, but understand that
the minimum win for a vic punter is half the declared divvie, whereas in sydney, there may be one winner, and they are not getting at
least half the declared divvie.....so if a
tri pays 2000, then in vic at least one punter is getting a thousand, in sydney, the tri could pay 2000, 100 people could win it, and have to share around in small amounts, with the tab keeping the rest.......when you get a tri in vic, you get the money......so the average tri payout in melbourne is much bigger than sydney.......divvies are just numbers and not dollars under the flexi-system.......the dividends remain the same,
it's just the payouts in sydney are much smaller, and pools carry over in perpetuity.

Dawson

2006 September 11 14:55:56

I struggle to follow your reasoning Kevin.

This is my take on it.

Pool of $10,000. You take a flexi try of 10%.

You end up being to the only winner thus the TAB will return 85% ( or whatever there take is out of the entire pool) of the pool to you

Therefor the declared dividend for this trifecta would be approx $85,000, and being the only winner you recieve $8,500.

Seems pretty simple to me, and i dont see how there is a detriment to the punter.

Consider the above scenaria with a $10,000 pool and ten winners including yourself with a 10% share. Imagine the other 9 winners were all full unit holders.

The pool would be split up as follows. Say each % you are entitled to equates to a unit. So the 9 punters who are entitled to the full dividend each have 100 units. the 10% punter would only have 10 units.

Therefor the total number of live units would be 910 ( 9 x 100 and 1x10 ). The remaining pool after take out ( i.e 8,500 ) would be divided by 910 which would equal 9.34 per unit. This amount would then be multiplied by 100 for the full unit punters ( thus giving the declared dividend), and by 10 for the 10% punter.

Therefor the final payouts would be :

9 Full unit punters would recieve $934, while the 10% punter would recieve $93.40.

Total paid out - $8,500.





kevin brest

2006 September 11 16:27:08

dawson, that should be the case, but it isn't......how many times is a flexi divvie
declared along with a carryover? it's going
on all the time.......the bloke at the tab told me i was the only one with a winning ticket and i thought i was laughing, until
he told me that the system was different....
benny made the point that divvies were similar, but they don't tell you how many winning tickets there are, unlike other pooled forms of gambling such as lotto.
again , if you hold the only winning ticket,
and there is 100,000 in the pool, and you have it for 10%, under the old system of
dividend it should be a million.....this is
not happening...............clarity, anyone?

but not iglesia, thanks

imaj eel

2006 September 12 19:56:55

Kevin,,,for some reason u keep rattling on about a :FLEXI: div.,,There is no such thing under any system NSW or Vic,, ..Flexi is a bet type only which allows u to bet less than 50c on a variety of combinations in some betting pools, most notably Tri,s 1st 4s and Quaddies,but there is no declared "flexi div" there is only a div declared on the event and ur flexi ticket, if succesful allows u a %age of that declared div....reread baby faced dawson.....so yuong and yet so much wisdom..lol

kevin brest

2006 September 13 08:48:29

imaj eel, 2 others have explained after i had to rattle on 10 times.....it should be clear now........what i want to know is how this gets into the totalisator, ??????

there should have been legislation about this because punters are getting handled.....

because of the sub 50c rule, the dividend has
to be affected, it's impossible to have so that a 50c punter gets his payout based on the old system but the flexi punter is treated
differently, but this is what's happened.....
...there has to be a major flaw or manipulation, which no doubt would penalise
the 1/2 or full unit punter due to the dividend factoring in the flexi investments.

it should be 2 separate pools.
it must be a major lurk for the nsw tab if they went as far as getting a trademark on the bet type....

mitch kramer

2006 September 13 10:15:57

It has been proven that tri's pay more since the introduction of flexi betting. The pools are made up of more "mug money" in the pool then had previously not been there, esp when they like to swing wide looking for the big collect

bettowin

2006 September 11 21:03:56

Thats not how it works Dawson

Dawson

2006 September 12 09:07:53

How does it work then Bettowin???

A dividend is always declared based on a payout of a % of the pool, regardless if its a flexi or not a flexi.

bettowin

2006 September 12 14:20:48

Dawson if you have a 10% flexi and you are the only winner, you will get 10% of the pool (10k pool) 1k return to you. The rest will become a jackpot.

Bell Flight

2006 September 11 22:10:14

I played with the flexi's a bit on Saturday on the net... can't complain when a $20 investment Maybe Better/F/F trifecta delivered handsomely, and was a bet I would otherwise never have taken!

Would have delivered the Quaddie too, if I'd had the "inside word" on OSJ!

The Mighty Quinn

2006 September 10 22:53:11

Totally agree, great way to bet if you can't afford to lay out hundreds trying to snare the quaddie. Many a time I've got say 30 or 40% of 2k or 3k which I never would have got otherwise. I can see how the bigger punters wouldn't be so happy though.

iglesia

2006 September 11 13:21:23

I can't follow Kevin's logic (but what's new?) about how a punter betting $1 per combination is worse off than a punter betting some other amount, and I can't see why flexi-betting should take the value out of it for bigger players and would have in fact thought the opposite would be true because, without it, the big players would just be competing against each other other, rather than competing (in theory) against uneducated (pokie!) money

kevin brest

2006 September 11 13:58:35

the logic is , iglesia, that flexi-betting
does not account for the pool in it's entirety.........

for example, goose.....if one punter, under
the proper system of dividend payout, holds
the only winning combo for a half, then the dividend is double the actual amount in the
pool.......so if there is 10000 in the tri pool, and i get it for 50 cents, and no-one else does, the dividend is about 20,000.
.........under flexi betting, you get about
whatever is your stated percentage in terms
of the pool, whether you were
the only winner or not....minus half the pool,
which carries over.....perpetual capital for
a greedy, cheating organisation.....have you
ever wondered why tri payouts haven't been in the millions as declared divvies? no, because
you wouldn't think like that because you are iglesia.

iglesia

2006 September 11 16:26:44

So, Kev, your complaint about flexi-betting, which is good and fun for the many, boils down to the fact you can now longer scoop the pool with your 50-cent investment - how many times did you ever manage that, old son?

JayBeeCee

2006 September 10 22:10:15

Flexi betting is great for the small punter but it has really affected the dividends for people who like to take the exotics for a half or full unit.

imaj eel

2006 September 12 21:48:05

Jay Bee
Alcatraz,yourself,and Hitchcock,in particular, but several others in general,seem upset by the idea that a small punter can now put several thousand "SILLY" dollars into a pool that he would otherwise have stayed out of,and that u can now win..solely because that small punter occasionally jags a lucky result that u in ur smart and clever way would never have got anyway..
U should get on your knees and thank the great TAB god in the SKY,for finding a way to get so much more mug money into the pool so that u and all the other full unit punters can get better value.
Remember that the flexi punter only bets that way so that he can have a lot more DEAD combinations in order to fluke a live one now and again, and all his dead money is just sitting there waiting for u, and even when he jags a result, he still only gets his mini percentage of it..
Flexi YEA more for all

Alcatraz

2006 September 11 05:30:47

Flexi betting is fantastic, allows one to have a bet, where otherwise they could not afford it.

However, if you compare dividends between TABs, big payouts are usually decimated. Small punters are able to couple anything and everything, for a small outlay.



kevin brest

2006 September 11 12:06:50

can't see how flexi is legal.......it is
placed on the totalisator and therefore must
return the full amount minus the type-of -bet-tax to the punters......flexi does not do this
and should be illegal under the appropriate pari-mutuel laws.

fixed -odds on the other hand are not pooled into the tote and so are a different kettle of fish....people who place full-unit trifectas on the tote are at an extreme
disadvantage because payouts are factored in with flexis.................a rip-off.

Hitchcock

2006 September 11 12:52:01

I hate them. They've sucked all the value out of the exotics pools so pissant punters can bet like they're playing the pokies.

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