Turnbull Stakes

2007 October 10 12:19:27

Gun, you call me clueless, when it was you comparing times on old V new tracks. I never said anything about the running of this years Turnbull except to say that comparing times to previous years was nonsense.

I have stated before, I do not care what people think about the class of WFA horses at the moment. One of them has to win the CP.
I don't care if it takes 4 minutes for them to walk the journey, some people will be getting in the queue to collect. I hope I an one of them, regardless of times and comparisons to previous years.

Hitchcock

2007 October 10 15:15:32

“comparing times to previous years was nonsense.”

I don’t think this this is useless process at all.

It might not tell you anything about the horses in the race as opposed to horses in the race in previous years, but it goes a long way to telling you that the track served up on Saturday was an absolute load of rubbish* and anyone making any serious form decisions based on what happened on Saturday is out of their mind.

* yes, I know the reasons why it was rubbish and I'm not condemning anyone or anything for that, except for the form from it.

dungbeetle

2007 October 10 14:42:15

Fields Of Omagh was top class (only a length off Sunline and Northerly at his best). He was breaking track records for a mile at Caulfield at his second last campaign and won the Cox at his last race.

You have no idea Speedy, even after almost a decade on the forum you are still using the same flawed analysis and "know it all" tone you've been using since your first post here.

An absolute imbecile with rarely an interesting thing to say.

You should go back to the rock you crawled out from.

2007 October 10 10:01:05

Mandrake, MF was a poorly ridden, 3 yo filly in last years CP. She has developed into a mighty strong mare and barring bad luck, will be in the finish this year.

2007 October 09 15:40:49

Gun Punter, you are the boofhead that put times up for previous editions of the Turbull Stakes. I merely pointed out that comparing times with previous years was nonsense, as it is a new track.

You should change your name from Gun Punter to dumb *unter.

infidel

2007 October 08 19:45:34

Danehill's played almost no part in middle distance wfa racing in Australia at G1 level, wortel. The most notable thing about them was their lack of success at that caper.

Dane Ripper, Elvstroem ... got any more?

2007 October 08 20:52:02

Infidel, I also couldn't agree more with your post. Danehill sired lots of top 2 and 3yo's but not too many outstanding middle distance older horses.

Bell Flight

2007 October 08 23:07:13

el segundo and pompeii ruler and miss finland et al couldn't beat a 9YO fields of omagh... as a 5 and 6 year old fields of omagh was getting towelled by northerly and sunline... that tells you everything you need to know about today's topliners. granted, they are above average, but they are light years away from the level of the true modern champs.

2007 October 09 16:20:29

To Bell Flight and Hitchcock. I agree with Bell Flight assertion that todays "stars" are lengths off compared to the glory years of not so long ago. I even said that in my post. I agree with it and certainly they should have been able to put away a 9yo.

2007 October 10 10:03:30

Koat Tugger, you really are clueless just like Slim. Slim's been posting on here for years and everyone of his pathetic posts is a joke.

As I pointed out the Turnbull time wasn't just slow in terms of previous years but also SLOW compared to other race times on the SAME DAY AND SAME TRACK.

Obviously that is too hard for your very small brain to understand.

If you can't see that the WFA horses that got beaten by Douro Valley and Scenic Shot are weak, then you should give up punting, because you don't have the faintest idea at all.

If DV/SS can beat these WFA horses what would Northerly/M&P do to them?

Tontonan

2007 October 09 18:05:00

That old horse broke the Caulfield 1600m record in his previous prepartion in the Futurity running 1.34.28, carving 0.82 seconds off Northerly's mark.

FOO was here.

Gary Still

2007 October 09 17:07:19

I would forgive any horse that is asked to take off 800m out (El Segundo in the Cox). I dont forgive the Gauch.

Having said that, Marasco is below its last prep, El Segundo has lost his zip (despite prev win), Harada is underwhelming me and with some suggesting that Miss Fin's breeding makes her 4yo staying ability questionable, then this Cox is up for grabs.

Cheers,
Gary

2007 October 09 18:11:01

Gary, take a look at Miss Finlands female line and you will see that she has plenty of staying blood in her.

Her grand dam Moonshell was an Epsom Oaks winner and is a full sister to Hatha Anna who we know from his win in the Queen Elizabeth, and also Doyen, a group 1 winner over 2400m.

Bell Flight

2007 October 09 13:18:29

Not selling FOO short at all - in fact the opposite. He never beat Northerly home in a race that was further than 1400m and he was sound in the majority of those races.

Northerly gave him 4.5kg in the Caulfield Cup and then thrashed him a week later in the Cox Plate.

The cream of today's crop should have put him away as a 9YO if they had any claims to greatness at all.

slim

2007 October 09 11:18:08

Belle,
You are entitled to your opinion but how can you possibly prove your claim.
All in the eye of the beholder my dear.

Wortel

2007 October 09 13:33:56

Dylan Thomas. :P

Danehill rules even if you want to knock him infy.

2007 October 09 09:31:01

As a 5yo Fields Of Omagh ran Northerly to a neck in a Caulfield Cup. The horse had lots of problems Bell Flight but at his top he was a very good galloper. I understand clearly what you are saying about the divide between todays stars and legends like Sunline and Northerly and I agree, but I reckon you are selling FOO a bit short.

Hitchcock

2007 October 09 14:03:15

Lister,

Fields Of Omagh was getting 4.5kgs off Northerly, which equates to Northerly’s Caulfield Cup run rating 3.2 lengths higher. That figure is still reasonably in line with Bell Flight’s theories.

2007 October 08 12:59:22

Hayes won't need to get FOO out of retirement, he has the CP winner in his stable.

Gun Punter, it is a new track, comparing times at this stage with previous years is nonsense.

slim

2007 October 08 15:25:36

koat puller,
It is refreshing that at least we have one poster on here that knows something about horse racing.

Flemington understandably will be racing slower than the norn because as you say, the track is brand new.

Arthur,
Sydney horses would be no more competitive than what we have here at present. Flemington will need much more racing before we get quick times so give us a break and go easy on the quality of the horses racing here at present.

2007 October 08 22:49:02

lol at slim, KP knows as little as you do.

6th fastest time on the day has got nothing to do with the new track as all the horses are running on it.

slim

2007 October 09 14:56:24

Lol at Gun, that is the pot calling the kettle black!
You are allowed to write the word BLACK on here aren't you?

Mandrake

2007 October 10 09:05:59

I agree with Bell, if Miss Finland could not beat FOO and company in last years Cox Plate with a postage stamp weight what chance in this years Cox Pl with more wgt!

Fergo

2007 October 10 09:43:36

It is very hard to decipher this year, which despite what everyone says about the competition makes it so intriguing.

I would say The Fin's chances improve due to the lack of consistent competition. I am sure Harada and El Seg will improve back at the valley on Grand Final day, as will I think Efficient. I can't see Devil Moon improving any on that run but if she gets left alone in front and slips away on the turn she will no doubt take some running down.

I certainly won't be taking the shorts about Miss Finland but she does appear to be very hard to beat. Having said that I will stick with the Feehan form as it is historically a very reliable pointer.

2007 October 10 10:14:11

4.5kgs is more like 4.5 lengths over 2400m.

FOO also got beaten by Lotteria and Savabeel in other Cox Plates.

Despite winning 2 CPs he was not top class.

Tonto made the point he ran a fast time over 1600m caulfield which is true but conditions were ripe for a fast time. The first 7 horses finished within 2 lengths. Those horses included Rosden and Great is Great.

2007 October 08 15:57:24

Good post slim, couldn't agree more.

bradmcmanus

2007 October 08 17:18:22

Anyone comparing race times from different years are going to great lengths to confuse themselves.

The fact that the top 50 horses are going around beating each other simply means we have no champions. As I said in another post we've got a mix of quality milers, pluggers and a very good mare who does everything right in her races. No champions.

2007 October 08 13:24:27

Dandy Dollar, Vormista, Standzout and Dolphin Jo all ran a faster time vs par.

This track looks a bit slow but Group 1 WFA horses should be able to run faster than those horses.

The Turnbull time was the 6th fastest relative to par on the day. Hardly vintage Group 1 WFA form.

I can't remember the other race times on previous Turnbull days but I bet the Turnbull time was one of the quicker times on the day.

If Dolphin Jo can run a respectable time why can't the Turnbull horses?

Why did Scenic Shot beat all but one horse?

SS is a good horse but if he's amongst the top 3 or 4 WFA horses in the country then it ain't strong competition.

The WFA horses are slow this year like last year.

Wortel

2007 October 08 14:14:29

We are seeing a temporary dip in breeding. The big boys are still trying to find how to make decent middle distance WFA horses without Danehill. Encosta/Flying Spur/RC only cut it up to a point.

dungbeetle

2007 October 08 14:04:11

The race was set up for Devil Moon. Farcical pace and difficult for Oliver to force the issue on Haradasun when he had already worked to get across. Come the Cox Plate when the pressure goes on at the 800m, she'll be gasping for air at the 200m. Some of the analysis by you guys really borders on lunacy.

2007 October 08 09:35:36

Brew could beat most of them! LOL

Bell Flight

2007 October 08 11:04:13

I was going to suggest bringing Lonhro out of retirement to finally snare a big one, but if FOO's back probably not a good idea as he had him covered.