What a lame "nuthin" post from Gladys.

Hey Gladys you said:

"Have a look at my post regarding Manikato Gaz"

"Can't recall him ever having to race stablemates and aged stayers however"

Derrrrrrrrrrr, you are such an uneducated racing knowledge NOVICE. Gladys.

Even the people that say things like why didn't Black Caviar win the Melbourne Cup? would be ware that there was little opportunity to race against aged stayers as he didn't attempt to win a race beyond 1600m after his 3yo year.

I doubt that there would have been too many aged stayers in these 1600m WFA events.

Oh and while we are on the subject of the supposed champion miler Dudikato, lets look at his record in these three WFA 1600m races that he attempted to win.

As a 6yo

He beat Lawman in the Q E Cup  (but later on Lawman beat him in a G2 mile event)

He ran 3rd to My Gold Hope in the All Aged Stakes G1

As a 7 yo

He ran 3rd to Lawman in the G2 Freehan Stakes

Thats it, is that the record of a champion miler?

What a pea heart this horse was beyond his one trick pony distance of 1400m after the end of his 3yo year.

Why did this supposed champion miler unlike many other champion milers before him never attempt to win a Cox Plate?

Answer = He had a pea heart beyond a mile after his 3yo year.

 "I am currently living inside of the clown Chivas's head at the moment"

You forgot to mention that you're living there rent-free. I like my charity to be acknowledged.

Good on you Freddy. You have got Dopey and Boots right off the bit. 

I wonder if you could do me a favour Freddy. It seems I am currently living inside of the clown Chivas's head at the moment. Could you move into Gary's and Dopey's boofheads whilst I am away?

Gary,

I think that you will find that Freddy was talking about a horse called "Lohnro"  NOT Lonhro.

"Lohnro" is probably another very good horse like Frankel, Enable and Stradivarius that this internationally travelled vet saw racing overseas in one of his dreams.

Freddy the dreamer!

In any case, as they say look at the scoreboard.

Cox Plate wins / Cox Plate starts

Lonhro 0/2 (laughable Freddy)

Octagonal 1/2

Sunline 2/4

Northerly 2/2

Kingston Town 3/3

WINX 4/4

And don't start banging on about how she beat nothing.

Come on Freddy you are supposedly a vet, how many 3 yo, 4 yo, 5 yo, 6 yo, 7 yo & even 8 year olds born not only in Aus & NZ but also overseas and then had the opportunity to take on WINX and beat her in any of these four consecutive Cox Plate wins and yet she put them all to the sword?

Please note that there was a new and different crop of 3yos having the opportunity to line up against WINX each year for four consecutive years, now add in the new crop of 4 yo, 5 yo, 6 yo, 7 yo & even 8 year olds for each and every year for four consecutive years.

Now that's a lot of horses but none of these could beat our champion mare WINX.

The point that needs to be made here is that given that there was not so many international horse coming out for the Cox Plate prior to the WINX era it adds even more merit to her record as unlike the Kingston Town era there were far fewer international horses attempting to win a Cox Plate and hence smaller horse crops to contend with.

WINX flogged Highland Reel but how would Kingston Town have gone against a horse like Spectacular Bid?

Freddy,

My comments to you are..

1. Why does non-Cox winner, Lonhro get a mention?

2. Steroids may increase strength, but they don't enable horses to run 400 metre sectionals in 21 seconds.

Hey Freddy (the dreamer),

It looks like my aggressive 'hair pulling' tactics have worked a treat on you, did you cry?

You say "Whether you believe that or not has absolutely no relevance at all to me. Your belief or non belief in my work does not affect any part of my life."

And yet you respond in a flood of tears to my my aggressive hair pulling, go figure?

You are an absolute HYPOCRITE Freddy.

In one breath you say "I did skip over much of what he wrote"

But in the next you say 'whilst dodging questions" 

How could you possibly be aware of any questions that I supposedly dodged, if by your own admission you skipped over much of what I wrote? 

I ask again "What specifically, are the questions that I, in your opinion, have supposedly been dodged by me?" 

Put up or shut up, MUG!

I like animals so I became a vet. I like horse racing so I decided to specialise.  I am certainly not the first person to take that path, and will not be the last. Some people like assholes, so they become proctologists.....or kings.

Whether you believe that or not has absolutely no relevance at all to me. Your belief or non belief in my work does not affect any part of my life.

As you were.

Hey, what's happened to drop dead Fred?

No doubt in my mind.

He's simply stuck in limbo still mesmerized by the vision of looking up at Gladys' cobwebs I'd say!

Hi there Freddy the Fake what a google eyed bull5h!t artist you are.

As they say you can fool some of the people some of the time but not al of the people all of the time.

What percentage of the population would believe your tripe?

0.0000000001% would in my opinion be a pretty fair guess.

I would towel you up a bit more but I am a bit busy at the moment co ordinating the coming Derby celebrations as part the Queen's Platinum Jubilee.

For your information Liz and I are personal friends, we go back over sixty years, and as a matter of fact she is the one that gave me my nick name The King.

But I will ask you one thing, perhaps you can explain your comment about me in regard to supposedly "dodging questions"

What specifically, are the questions that I in your opinion have supposedly been dodged by me? 

If I get a response from you I may find a little time to respond to you after my co ordination duties of the Derby day meeting are complete.

I am now bending over Freddy, kiss my Royal Ring, you massive fake!

This is without doubt the most fascinating thread I have read. Anywhere. Ever.

Gary and some others make some very valid, well thought out and researched points. The person who calls himself the king seems to be a borderline retarded narcissist though. So I must admit whilst I have found this thread fascinating I did skip over much of what he wrote as I classified it as primary school playground gloating whilst dodging questions and aggressive 'hair pulling' tactics as one may see in aforementioned playground of a boy who is infatuated with a girl but has limited social skills so in order to garner her attention and favour he pulls her hair in the hope that she may fall for his caveman like ministrations.

Gladys is correct of course.  With the exceptions of Highland Reel who was a genuine force and who became even more so post Winx and perhaps Humidor although it's difficult to know exactly what Weir had it juiced up on when it seemed for a split second that he may have reeled her in, until she saw him coming.

I have worked 'backstage' in all the Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane stables and indeed spent some years working in Europe and was lucky enough to see 3 of the best in Frankel, Enable and Stradivarius humiliate some exceptionally good thoroughbreds in my role as an equine veterinarian.  But besides that I am a lover of the sport in general an owner of racehorses and admirer of the magnificence of the beasts involved, the dedication and bravery of the jockeys, the all too thankless work of the strappers, trackriders etc. There are however some high profile riders who I would never allow within 50 metres of any animal I owned. So I speak with some knowledge of the industry.

I would like to speak a little on Regumate.  Whilst it is a fact that Regumate contains small amounts of anabolic steroids the scientific opinion, and I do stress the word 'opinion' here is that it affects some horses more intensely than others. There are currently studies underway to prove or disprove this theory but there is an abundance of information suggesting that there are some animals who seem to gain more than others from an equal dose.  This study has included horses.  The reasoning is yet to be clarified, or indeed it may be a case of something within the animal that has yet to be determined therefore scientists may be barking up the wrong tree.  Perhaps Winx was one of those animals whose makeup responded more favourably to this but perhaps it is something completely alternative. The jury is still out, but I for one and many of my colleagues are incredibly curious as to what the outcome of the analysis and testing will reveal. 

Having said that, the fact remains that behind the scenes Winx was nicknamed Flo Jo so take from that what you will. And I believe the word 'enable' either in its transitive verb form or proper noun form is still banned in the CW stables. My understanding is that whenever the word is uttered his testes retreat so far into his stomach it takes an army of Korean comfort girls working around the clock to coax them back out. 

I do however, digress. Facts are facts though and Winx did run some impressive times. Many of those races involved a pacemaker from the same stable and less than genuine group 1 horses. I would dearly have loved to see Sunline, Northerly, Lohnro, Enable, Golden Sixty, Winx and Frankel all as 5 y.o. line up against each other on a big track over 2000m. 

Apologies for the essay, and if you made it this far then I admire your patience.

In conclusion may I say: Winx, good horse, best of its era in Australia, beat nuthin.

For the record, I would have had a lazy fiver on Golden Sixty. And boxed Sunline, Northerly, Lohnro, Enable, Frankel and Golden Sixty for the exotics.

Gladys,

Re your: "avoid Flemington week at all costs." in relation to the Champion mare WINX.

Like I said previously: "You are such a pathetic novice in regard to your very limited knowledge, if any of Australian racing,"

You are the sort of dope who can be heard saying things like:

"I wonder why they didn't win the Melbourne Cup with the Champion mare Black Caviar?"

Derrrrrrr!

What no retort from Gladys?

Hmmmm, looks like she is the one who is hanging her head in shame which of course is now dangling down at the end of her long goosey neck as she has NOT been able disprove any of the FACTS that I have stated about the Mighty Powder Puff. 

  boo hooo, Gladys, you have been outsmarted once again by the superior intellect of your Royal Highness.

You are such a pathetic novice in regard to your very limited knowledge, if any of Australian racing, hence you have now given up on the debate and yielded to your KING.

We are all laughing at you and the inadequacies of your uneducated racing knowledge that you continue to display, please do not change as we all need a good old belly laugh from time to time.

Thanks for the laughs Goose!

Gladys,

Re your:

"You should hang your stupid head in shame with that cowardly attack on Might and Power,"

Gladys, it would appear that I have struck a nerve.

The truth about the MIGHTY POWDER PUFF obviously hurts.

I will hang my head in shame when and if you can disprove any of the FACTS that I have stated about M&P.

In regard to the Mighty Powder Puff's wins in the 1997 Caulfield and  Melbourne cup, here's some other FACTS to consider.

In the 1997 Caulfield Cup not only was the second best horse in the race an AGED stayer but the third best horse was Catalan Opening.

Now lets put that in context, the horse that proved to be the third best horse in in this 2400m (one and a half mile) G1  hcp  NEVER won a stakes race  over more than 1600m (one mile) in its entire racing career.

And as for the 1997 Melbourne Cup the FACTS are that the Mighty Powder Puff only just fell in to beat an aged stayer with Markham in third place.

Again lets put this in context, Markham never won a stakes race beyond 2400m in its entire racing career.

Marham's best win in of its entire racing career was a lowly South Australian Derby.

Further to this the 1997 Melbourne Cup field which the Mighty Powder Puff only just fell in to win against consisted of more than 27% of aged stayers.

VE's win in the Melbourne Cup was breathtaking and she is absolutely suited to taking on overseas' stayers.

The only breathtaking horses you like are those gasping for breath as they wobble to the line.

I think it is great to see the connections of VE taking her out of Coward's Castle and sending her to France to race against real racehorses.

It is obvious they are not of the view that you only race against non winners, no hopers, aged stayers and stable mates and avoid Flemington week at all costs.

You should hang your stupid head in shame with that cowardly attack on Might and Power, Gary. You are not worthy of even following him around with a shovel.

What no retort from Gladys?

This is a sure sign that she is now running low on ammunition and has now realised that she in fact now in an untenable weak position and has nil chance of winning the debate.

That will do me, its tantamount to saying:

"I yield, you were right all along your Royal Highness!

WINX was in fact the CHAMPION mare of the WORLD and given her winning distance ranges very likely the best and most diverse mare that we have ever seen race in Australia."

Gladys,

You really are grasping at straws and scraping out the bottom of the bird cage (goose cage) when you start trying to accentuate and promote the abilities of the Mighty Cream Puff by bragging about a win in a lowly Qld G2 race.

This is a sure sign that you are now running low on ammunition and that even you are starting to realise that you are in fact now in a weak position and obviously losing the debate.

It is a FACT that when M&P won the Hollindale Cup it had only recently been raised to the status of a G2 race.

Previous to this it was only only a G3 race for three years and pathetically only ever a Listed race prior to that.

Great bragging Glad, you have managed to shoot yourself in the foot by bragging about your Mighty Power Puff winning a lowly Powder Puff Qld G2 race that had recently been only a G3 for a few years and a pathetic Listed race put on for the local banana benders prior to that.

PS

There is no denying that this race has been won by many GREAT horses (any wonder they won it)

But it is also a fact that it has been won by a number of horses who only ever won "one" Stakes race. i.e. The Hollindale Powder Puff Stakes

Nice comparison King,

Without doubt, Spy Catcher had the wood on Might and Power. It only had two wins in its career and both were against M&P. If Spy Catcher had remained sound, it could have been a champion and relegated M&P to a professional placegetter.

And the others that beat M&P as a 2yo and 3yo, either retired, became ill or suffered form slumps, leaving M&P to beat the duds of Dudsville. 

On a different tack, I wonder what Winx would have done to outsider Northern Drake in a Cox Plate! :-)

Gladys,

This is what you said of WINX:

"The only conclusion you can draw is that she was pretty ordinary as a three year old given the horses besides First Seal that beat her.

As to why she then improved has been fully explained by me on countless occasions. She didn't have to improve much at all, just stay sound as all she met was stablemates, non winners, aged stayers and duds."

And this is what I say about Might And Power:

The only conclusion you can draw is that he was pretty ordinary as a three year old given the horses besides INTERGAZE that beat him.

Might and Power had 9 starts as a 3yo and only won three. (WINX as a 3yo 10 starts, 4 wins, 3 / 2nds )

Here are the horses that ran second to him in those three wins, Myban Star, Nimzo Indian & Sakti.

What a classy bunch, NOT!

Here is a list of horses that beat M&P as a 3yo:

He ran 2nd to Spy Catcher, 12th to Purist, 2nd to Sir Markie, 2nd to INTERGAZE in Cant Guineas, 7th to Tarnpir Lane in the Rosehill Guineas, & 4th to Ebony Grosve in the AJC Derby.

As to why he then improved IMO can, just like WINX can be put down to maturity and further experience

He didn't have to improve much at all, just stay sound and go on and beat the aged stayer Doreimus in the 1997  Caulfield and Melbourne Cups. 

Yeah, M&P was a 4yo in the 1997 Cups but in both cups the grand old AGED 7yo warrior Doriemus  was the only horse that could run 2nd both times.

Says a lot for the other duds participating in those cups.

Perhaps they should have run Spy Cracker or Sir Markie against M&P in those cups as after all these giants of the Australian turf had beaten him previously.

Gladys,

Ah yes, lets not forget it beat Northern Drake (100/1) by a length in the Cox Plate.

Like the unfortunate Happy Clapper, M & P would have been just another horse, had it raced in the Winx era.

I have always considered your prediction that Humidor would win the Melbourne Cup as your standout in a long list of stupid statements Gaz, but I think you may well have outdone yourself if that is possible.

Have a look at Might and Powers Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cup wins, have a look at his Hollindale and Doomben Cup wins and then have a look at his Cox Plater win. Have a look at the horses he beat and how he beat them. He ran them into the ground. Thee were no stablemates, no non winners making up the numbers and hiding in wfa races against no hopers.

Have a long look at the Caulfield and Melbourne Cup wins in particular. Do you think he was staggering?

It is a pretty weak argument when all you can rely upon to support Regumate Girl is to have cheap shots at one of our champions.

Tell us all about the good ones she beat dopey!

Might and Power staggered to the line many times and is lucky to have not had to suffer the same fate as Happy Clapper.

Gaz, I am sorry I haven't answered your stupid post earlier but unlike yourself I can't be bothered reading your stupid tripe until I feel bored and decide to humour you.

Now I know I have told you this before Gaz, but times mean nothing. I saw Might and Power run 32 in a track gallop between races ar Rosehill years ago and Alan Denham dismissed it out of hand. He said when there is no pressure on horses can run amazing times, it is when they are pressured that it really matters. Which of those goats she raced caused pressure.

As for Puddinghead, there will be no challenge. You tried this years ago and I towelled you forcing you to leave for three months. Now, years later, you want me to do a Winx and take on no hopers. 

Can't you fools think of something else to do besides scream out for me to return. You have to let go. Get a life.

Geoffrey,

Re your reference to Glad bag:

"an oaf of the most massive bumbling quantities."

Don't be too hard on Gladys, every King needs a number of bumbling OAFS in their kingdom.

Who else would I get to empty my chamber pot, muck out the stables and siphon out the royal cesspit?

These are jobs for a damn good OAF.

And as far as OAFS go there is no denying, Gladys has proven herself many, many times to be a damn "GOOD" OAF.

Lucky you Gladys, this is probably the first time that you have been told that you are "GOOD" at something.

A solid 5 out of 9 for Geoffrey, versus a predictable no show from Glad-bag.

Whilst the challenge was not accepted, Gladys acceptance of chicken status has been well appreciated by the forum.

Regards

Geoffrey

Gladys, your silence is as deafening as it is predictable.

Nonetheless, and should you happen to post later, here are my 3 selections.

Straight Arron

Fireburn

Mamounia

Bok, bookkkk, bok, booooookkkk!

Regards

Geoffrey

The fact is Gladys, for now the best part of 10 years, superiors such as myself and the many esteemed contributors to this one thread, and others, have shown you to be an oaf of the most massive bumbling quantities.

A big oaf. 

The biggest oaf.

I offer a challenge. Give 3 horses across 3 races this Saturday at Randwick. I will do same. With a 3-2-1 point basis for first through third, the loser on points leaves this forum for 1 year.

Are you game, or as we all suspect.... bok, bok, bookkkk, bok, bokkkkkkk! ????

Regards

Geoffrey

Gary, 

Re your: "Tell me which of our past champions could have matched this." to Gladys.

Rather odd that Gladys has not given a response to your question within the last 5 odd days. 

Do you think that she is still sitting in some dark, dank room thumbing through countless pages of dusty volumes of old racing records looking for those elusive answers?

OR

Do you think that her SILENCE is a representative of the fact that she has finally realised that she is WRONG about WINX and as such she has now YIELDED and shown herself up once again to be the

cow@rdly w!pped C LI R that she is? 

"Come on Gaz, when she was in those impossible positions at the 400 metres, who was in front of her? Come on Gaz, who were they? The jockey could have dismounted and rounded them up they were so useless"

She blew the start in the 2017 Warwick Stakes by 4-5 lengths and still ran the last 1000m in 55 seconds.  Oh Gladys, only a moron would understate this performance.

She ran the last 600m in 31.98 and the last 400m in 21.07. She literally smashed the clock. Tell me which of our past champions could have matched this.

Gladys,
What is the point of bringing up that pancake champion Manikato and or the horses he beat or did not beat once again?

Don't get me entirely wrong here even I think that Manikato was a great horse but should this one trick pony (1400m) really be considered to be a champion or should he only ever be referred to as a horse who was a champion against other young horses but was really only ever outstanding as an older horse when racing against similarly weighted older horses at his his pet distance of 1400m?

These are the facts:

Manikato is often lauded as having been a great sprinter / miler but the realty is that he only ever won one open company race over 1600m out of four attempts.

The other fact is that this supposed champion sprinter never won a G1 open company sprint race over 1200m.

How many supposed champion sprinters, particularly those based in Melbourne never won an Oakleigh Plate, Lightning Hcp or a Newmarket Hcp?

One answer is Manikato. 

So how do we categorize this supposed champion racehorse?

Well it would appear that he was definitely not a champion sprinter

(never won a G1 in open company sprint over 1200m)

Hmmmmm, well what about him being classified as a champion miler?

No that won't work either as he only ever won one race over 1600m in open company over 1600m and finished 3rd in all three others.

No based on these undisputed facts I doubt that you could call him a champion  miler.

The reality is that just like the really mature big strong kid in the under12 footy team, he had an advantage as he could easily beat on all the other young 2yo & 3yo horses of his day

(except for in the Rosehill Guineas 2000m where his pea heart gave up on him)

Yes, he was brave at WFA as a young horse with the incredible weight advantage but when he got to open company and then had to race against other similarly weighted mature horses he was often a dud (non winner) unless of course it was at his one trick pony pet distance of 1400m.

Have a look at my post regarding Manikato Gaz. From memory I think I listed about thirty or forty horses. Can't recall him ever having to race stablemates and aged stayers however. Several others I could name as well.

Come on Gaz, when she was in those impossible positions at the 400 metres, who was in front of her? Come on Gaz, who were they? The jockey could have dismounted and rounded them up they were so useless.

Khap,

She's the best I've ever seen. The question about what she pummelled has been answered many times - and you know it.

Now, name the best you've ever seen. And then name the top five that it beat.

I dare you.

"A lot of horses win a lot of races. e.g. Nature Strip or even So Si Bon." 

Yes Krapper, they do, Kingston Town, Gunsynd, Manikato, Might And Power also won a lot of races, but only one horse has ever won 33 straight including four Cox Plates. Your question is really quite irrelevant as its being asked by someone with the taste of sour grapes still lingering in their mouth from having laid Winx throughout her career. For you, no answer will suffice, as no answer will erase the bitter taste in your mouth or replenish the cash that was lost through your clueless punting strategy ie just keep laying Winx as she has to get beaten one day. Unfortunately for you, that day never came.

So, perhaps you are best equipped to answer your own question, after all, you must have thought there were some horses good enough to beat her each time you laid her. It will be a long list, but let us know how you go.

One again, thanks for the laughs.

Khraptingly,

Sorry OLD chum but it appears that there may be more than a a little touch of D3MENT!A creeping into your poor withering addled old brain if you think for one second that you have come up with a REVELATION or new approach to this topic.

Perhaps you may be able to get the nurse to sit you down with a warm glass of milk and show you on the computer that this topic has in fact been done to death AD NAUSEAM.

ad nauseam

ADVERB

1. used to refer to the fact that something has been done or repeated so often that it has become annoying or tiresome.

Come to think of it Khrap that definition almost sounds like they are actually talking about you.

Here's a new nick name for poor OLD Khrap, how about Khrap - Nauseam?

How funny is that?

Boy oh boy, how funny, witty and highly intellectual is your KING?

Put simply Khrap, sorry to be the one to break it to you OLD chap, but it appears that you have simply FORGOTTEN    ?????

Cheers from, 

Your Highly Intelligent Royal Highness  

A lot of horses win a lot of races. e.g. Nature Strip or even So Si Bon.  But will someone please advise other forum members and I, what were the five best horses that Winx defeated in your opinion. Then once the first person has a go, perhaps someone might contest that list and so on. 

So has anyone got the courage to start the ball rolling. Gary perhaps? Lets get the conversation onto the opposition of Winx rather than making the forum all about Gladys or myself. 

Gladys, you said;

"If you thought she was such a great champion why didn't you get on when she first won a Cox Plate and just keep letting it ride?"

Nobody in the their right mind expected her to win 33 straight. So many times she was in trouble with 400m to run and lunatic' layers like you would have been counting the zillions you thought you were about to add to your wealth.

Sadly for you, she ran a dozen incredible, sub 22 second, final 400 metre' sectionals, mercilessly annihilating your hopes and your bank account. 

She was unbackable, because she was the best in a lifetime. All you got from her incredible journey was an empty wallet and a massive headache.

Hi Glad.

Re your:

"If you thought she was such a great champion why didn't you get on when she first won a Cox Plate and just keep letting it ride? 

Sorry to disappoint you Gladys, but I did.

I am one of the few people who can honestly say that I not only lost a bundle occasionally on WINX early on but also won a MOTZA on her later on.

Why? because one of my near neighbours and a major shareholder of WINX loves to talk horses with other like minded people when and if I bumped into her at the shop or near her place.

I love the view of her place from the road, but you would hate it Glad as there are great big blue and white flags a fluttering in the back yard and a great big horse statue of WINX in the front side garden.

Poor Count Cretin, he is so wound up that they finally managed to win a test, albeit against a team rated 6th in the world that he posted in the wrong thread.

Whilst you are totally obsessing over when I layed Winx, why don't you and that other imbecile Gaz tell us all when you actually backed her. I know that you have both spent hours sobbing over old videos of her beating no hopers, stable mates and other duds, but when did you back her if you were so confident.

If you thought she was such a great champion why didn't you get on when she first won a Cox Plate and just keep letting it ride? You didn't because you you were never sure until after the event and then you come on here and mutually congratulate each other.

Come on. tell uls about all the big bets you had with the others in the ward at your mental institution big mouth.

Cough Cough!

King, 'ol Glad is waiting until the result of the third Test in Pakistan is known. If the Aussies win, then Glad will stay 'Missing In Action' for a while longer. If they don't win, then Glad will be back immediately with her usual fanciful stories of imaginary bets with Monopoly money and Champagne that looks and tastes just like lemonade. She's so predictable.

Hmmm,

What's happened to Glady?

It would appear that Gladys must have been barred from using the Community Centre computer.

She has probably been barred for not patiently waiting her turn but instead franticly pushing the other poor H0MELESS PE0PLE out of the way in an attempt to hog the community keyboard all to herself.

Hey Gladys,

If you do in fact get another chance to use the community computer how about showing some intestinal fortitude by answering the following question..

I can't wait for you to get inside my head with an answer Gladys as due to your absence your Jolly Old King has not had a good old Belly Laugh for some time.

Answer the question you gutless racing knowledge novice.

Who were these nuthin's that you were so sure that were going to beat our CHAMPION MARE when you laid her time and time again?

Failure to answer this one question will be an admission that you have been cleverly out maneuvered by the superior intellect of YOUR KING

'I live inside your head don't I. Correspond with Chivas. Just like you he is a cerebral bankrupt.'

As opposed to a financial bankrupt, like yourself. OK

It is somewhat sad Gaz that your raison d'etre is for me to respond to your childish imbecilic posts.

Don't you have anyone else that will talk to you besides your psychiatrist and counsellor.

I live inside your head don't I. Correspond with Chivas. Just like you he is a cerebral bankrupt.

Glad, glad to see you back to embarrass yourself once more.

Its been a while Glad.

Very patient of you Glad, it would appear that unfortunately it has taken some time for you to wait to get your turn on the community centre computer.

You just can't live without me posting, can you Gaz. Why don't you go and have a cry watching some old videos of Winx beating duds.

What did WINX beat?

Answer = WINX beat and continues to beat Gladys into cowardly submission

So where's Gladys? 

Looks like I was right again (as usual) she is now soooooo d3pressed and embarrassed that she has gone into hiding once again. 

Gladys, this from the OXFORD dictionary.

"layed or laid. Laid is the correct past tense for 'lay' "

That will do me and every other thinKING person.

Now have yourself a nice glass of warm milk and a good lay down, ignore the temptation for semantics for once and have a good think about attempting to answer the following question:

Who were these nuthin's that you were so sure that were going to beat our CHAMPION MARE when you laid her time and time again?

Avoiding giving an answer to this question is simply digging yourself into a deeper hole of the mire of 5tupidity! 

Hey Glad, whether its the archaic version 'layed' that you like to use because you don't know any better, or the proper version 'laid' that everyone else uses, isn't important here. What's important is that you keep giving out those lays, as they help to cement your reputation as the world's most popular unintentional comedian.

Don't keep us waiting too long for your next gem.

Thanks again for the laughs!

Why don't you get someone at your remedial reading class to help you with a dictionary Gaz. There you will find why the word "Layed" is also used instead of "laid". Two different concepts of the past tense.

I imagine that will do your dopey head right in. When you can't offer any other excuses for your own stupidity you go after grammar and like everything else you touch, it turns to the proverbial.

So Gladys, if it is all as you said:  "Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'."

Then who were these nuthin's that you were so sure that were going to beat our CHAMPION MARE when you laid her time and time again?

CHECKMATE DOPEY 

"If you apply Glad's logic to Phar Lap, who had 1 second placing and 4 unplaced runs at his first 5 starts as a three-year-old, then he too, was pretty ordinary as a three-year-old." Well done, Chivas :-)

Yes King, its laughs galore here at the moment, I think Gladys is the R&S site's unintentional comedian.

I found her Winx statement "The only conclusion you can draw is that she was pretty ordinary as a three year old given the horses besides First Seal that beat her." to be one of her best/funniest and most clueless.

If you apply Glad's logic to Phar Lap, who had 1 second placing and 4 unplaced runs at his first 5 starts as a three-year-old, then he too, was pretty ordinary as a three-year-old. It can't get any funnier than that.

She's a true comical genius, albeit unintentional. 

Sorry Count that should have been Count not count

Hi count, yes the laughs do keep coming.

Gladys is the gift of mirth that just keeps giving.

Here is yet another laughable example of her old crotchety archaic ways:

Is “layed” a word?

“Laid” is past tense for “lay”.

The word “layed” used to be a real word. However, today, it’s seen as archaic, and you’d be unlikely to find it in any dictionary. 

And yet we have Goofy old Gladys posting the likes of:

"Where have I said that I layed Winx every start Chivas."

Further to this I think she meant this as a question but she is either too dem3nted to know what a question mark is and what its used for or is it that her attention span is simply (operative word) so feeble that she forgot half way through what she was attempting to communicate to you?

Ha, haa, haaa, haaa you have given your jolly old KING yet another good belly laugh to the point that my tummy is now rolling like a big bowl of quivering jelly.

The laughs just keep coming from you Glad, please oh please never change, 

Gladys, the reason you freely admit that you laid the Aussies in every Test is, not because you "just cannot back cheats" but more because there's no way you can hide from the fact, especially when the laughs it generated are still ongoing.

Now you're trying to tell us that you never layed Winx at every start? Like I keep saying, thanks for the laughs!

Yeah Count,

Gladys said:

"Where have I said that I layed Winx every start"

Like you said:

"Once again, thanks for the laughs, you really are in a class of your own, keep ‘em coming."

Yes, I am predicting that the laughs will keep coming as I reckon that Gladys' next comment will be:

No I didn't lay WINX every time, I only laid her in the starts that she got beaten in. 

Come on gutless Glad all jokes aside.

I challenge you to answer the following question.

Avoiding answering this simple question will signal to all the world and firmly establish beyond a shadow of doubt that you are in fact the biggest dunderhead that has ever posted on this forum.

Come on GUTLESS, they are your words, you own them, answer this question or slink back under your rock and go back into hiding again like you always do when you have been outsmarted yet again by the superior intellect of your KING.

Who were these horses that one minute you are calling hopeless but in the next breath you appear to consider were in fact good enough to knock off our CHAMPION MARE each and every time you supposedly selectively laid WINX? 

Kiss my Royal ring dopey.

Where have I said that I layed Winx every start Chivas. Are you challenging Gaz for the title of Biggest Liar on the Forum award.

I certainly did lay the Aussies every test as although I freely admitted the Poms were hopeless I just cannot back cheats.

Gladys,

I, and any other "thinKING" racing person certainly can draw that conclusion.

No more bluff and bluster Gladys.

Your failure to answer the following question will be an admission of your inadequacies in relation to your racing knowledge.

This will then firmly cement you into your rightful position as being a person who only possesses a menial  NOVICE class or less ability in regard to anything to do with racing knowledge.

The question:

Who were these horses that one minute you are calling hopeless but in the next breath you appear to consider were in fact good enough to knock off our CHAMPION MARE each and every time you supposedly selectively laid WINX? 

Hang on! Aren’t you the same clown who told us all to “Load-up” on laying the Aussie “no-hopers” against the Poms.

All five Tests you gave the same advice “load-up” “load-up” “load-up” “load-up” “load-up” the no-hoper Aussies can’t win, and every time you were left in an embarrassing mess. Little wonder its taken you this long to emerge from your dumpster.

I find it hilarious that you, after laying Winx every time she raced and laying the Aussies in all five Tests have the audacity to accuse another poster here of writing tripe and then calling them “cerebrally challenged”. Sorry, but insults and name-calling wont cover-up the fact that you have no real knowledge of what you are talking about. But we’ve known that all along.

Once again, thanks for the laughs, you really are in a class of your own, keep ‘em coming.

Just read your tripe posted in January Gaz. No mate, I don't want to be too hard on you as you can't help being cerebrally challenged, but you can't draw that conclusion at all and I am sure you realise that.

The only conclusion you can draw is that she was pretty ordinary as a three year old given the horses besides First Seal that beat her.

As to why she then improved has been fully explained by me on countless occasions. She didn't have to improve much at all, just stay sound as all she met was stablemates, non winners, aged stayers and duds.

One more time to perhaps permeate your thick skull: Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'.

What's happened to Gladys?

I heard an unverified rumour that Gladys is now in the poor house after continually doing her dough laying WINX and then followed by trying to drag herself back out of the mire and then experiencing yet another another losing streak when laying the Aussie cricketers.

The rumour goes that first she couldn't pay her power bills and was then seen attempting to recharge her laptop for free and post from Macca's.

Apparently the manager then showed her the door as she was not making any purchases and was last seen skulking around the nearby Cash Converters attempting to sell her laptop for a pittance.

Where's Gladys?

What NO retort Gladys?

Perhaps she is still stuck in the corner that she painted herself into and simply can not get to the keyboard.

Or is it that this blowhard has finally been silenced as she has now realised what a fool she has made of herself?

King the Klown from punters?

Gladys, 

You can't have it both ways.

One minute you are saying that you only ever selectively laid WINX, meaning that you thought that there were presumably a number of horses in some of her races that may have been capable of beating her.

But in the next breath you say:

"I have never said that Winx was hopeless, I have just reserved that title for the want of a better word, "opposition" she faced. I have always acknowledged her as a good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin' horse."

AND

"Once this lot retired it was onwards and upwards in flogging aged stayers, non winners and stablemates."   

So which one is it Gladys?

You were so confident that she would win time and time again because she was a good horse who had nothing to beat except hopeless opposition comprised of aged stayers, non winners and stablemates.

OR

As you now claim you only laid WINX selectively as presumably you were fearful that the opposition in some of her races may have not be so hopeless and in fact in your opinion may have been able to beat her.

And if so who were these horses that one minute you are calling hopeless but in the next breath you appear to consider are in fact good enough to knock off our CHAMPION MARE?

Like I said you can't have it both ways Glad.

Check mate dopey, you have obviously painted yourself into a corner. 

Let's see you try and wriggle yourself out of this one, now that really will be funny. 

Gladys, on another thread you said "Have a look at Winx’s three year old races... A number of horses towel her up with ease, especially First Seal. Once this lot retired it was onwards and upwards in flogging aged stayers, non winners and stablemates."

Three year old' Winx was also beaten by Slightly Sweet TWICE. According to your “logic”, this confirms that Winx was ordinary, and Slightly Sweet could have won FIVE Cox Plates.

Gladys says:

"What a brave horse is Verry Elleegant"

BUT

We all know that even if Verry Elleegant went over and won the Arc, Gladys like with WINX and BLACK CAVIAR would be on here once again saying:

Yeah, so what she beat nothin!

It's hard to imagine anybody being interested in racing if the only pleasure they seem to get out of it is knocking anything that shows exceptional ability.

But with Gladys, this is the nature of the beast, go figure?

Gladys you said:

"What a brave horse is Verry Elleegant." (AGREED)

"Takes on Caulfield and Melbourne Cups, not frightened to give almost all the field weight," (AGREED) 

"races during the Cup carnival, races in big fields" (AGREED)

But hey, as much as I have admiration for this GREAT mare and the up and coming star INCENTIVISE lets not get too carried away.

The FACTS are:

This mare based on her previous Melb Cup run was racing at a distance that suited her.

There is no doubt in my mind that she would have won by even further had she had a softer track more to her liking.

But lets get things in perspective.

The reality is that the second horse had never contested a STAKES race beyond 2400m and as such was considered possibly suspect at the distance by many good judges.

Many a GREAT horse, brave as they may have been have been found out by the grueling 3200m, eg. Gunsynd (coincidently another Queenslander.)

The third horse prior to this run could only be considered as a G2 or G3 stayer at best.

The fourth horse has NEVER won a STAKES race.

Have a look at the Darley Sprint in Melbourne today. Take out Nature Strip and you are left with a bunch of no hopers   
that would struggle at listed level racing for two million dollars. If that doesn’t turn your stomach have a go at the camels in the Queen Elizabeth. It looks like an old Winx field.

Oh yes, that’s right. All the good ones were hiding then.

What were their names again?

What a brave horse is Verry Eleegant. Takes on Caulfield and Melbourne Cups, not frightened to give almost all the field weight, races during the Cup carnival, races in big fields and not just against stablemates and no hopers.

Compare this to Winx.

Au contraire Gaz. He has a trainer and connections that has a go and does not hide him in small, second rate fields, racing against stablemates and other duds. Good horse and love watching him.

Incentivise could come out and win the Melb Cup by three lengths and then the Arc by two lengths and Gladys and Khrapper would still say :

So what he beat nuthin!

BOOF HEADS

No Count. Although it was a pitiful Cox Plate it is not the worst.

Have a look at the Winx ones, they were abysmal. In one, Gary’s Melbourne Cup special Humidor almost beat her.

"Remember when Gaz and those other dunderheads used to bang on about good overseas horses not being game to come to Australia for the Cox Plate because Regumate Girl scared them off. Well she has retired years ago and still they don't come. The race, despite the prizemoney, means nothing to the international connections."

Gladys you have made a GOOSE of yourself once again. Well she has retired years ago and still they don't come.?????

"and still they don't come." ?????????

Zaaki GB? (late scratching)

Gold Trip FR? (late scratching)

State of Rest IRE?

Verry Elleegant? NZ   (NZ raider first raced in NZ)

Mo'unga NZ (NZ bred, Aus raced)

Probabeel NZ? (NZ raider first raced in NZ)

Callsilgn Mav NZ? (NZ raider)

Prior to the late scratchings there were only three Aus bred horses in the proposed field of ten. And you have the audacity to say "and still they don't come." ????

Gladys, I am starting to think that you may be more of an Ostrich rather than a GOOSE. It appears that you must have your head in the sand as you do NOT seem to have the ability to observe the obvious, prior to posting another example of your silly nonsense yet again.

Here's a tip Gladys, try checking the facts prior to posting!

It’s true that even a broken clock will display the correct time twice a day.

Well, it seems that Krapper and Gladys’ time has also come around and after years of banging-on and being wrong, they too, are now correct.

The Caulfield Cup and Cox Plate this year, really were an embarrassment, especially the Cox Plate.

How a horse like State Of Rest can come out here, never seen the tricky Valley circuit before and waltz off with $3M in his kick after beating just 7 rival runners beggars belief. His owners must still be pinching themselves and checking their bank-account to make sure it wasn’t all just a dream.

Australia’s premier Gr1 WFA event of the year with $5M prize-money ends up with just 8 starters?

At least The Everest had some genuine Gr1 sprinters competing and a full field of 12 runners, and it doesn't even carry Group status.

Take Verry Elleegant out of that Cox Plate and it would be struggling to get a Group rating as well.

Worst Cox Plate ever.

That Cox Plate field today was an absolute disgrace. How can anyone defend it. However, you will get these crawling mugs in the media that will find a way because their career depends on defending the industry. 

The Cox Plate meeting was a shocker, probably the worst Cox Plate meeting of all time. It got the appropriate crowd. 

Talking about duds, remember once this forum had them too, they were trying to defend Aussie racing. No wonder they disappeared.  You can imagine the spin that Rex would put on the Cox Plate result. 

Remember when Gaz and those other dunderheads used to bang on about good overseas horses not being game to come to Australia for the Cox Plate because Regumate Girl scared them off. Well she has retired years ago and still they don't come. The race, despite the prizemoney, means nothing to the international connections.

As seen today, all they need to do is send just an ordinary, run of the mill by their standard one and it will do the job. Look at the second horse. It hasn't even turned three years old biologically as yet and it cleaned up those other goats.

Just imagine what would happen if the Europeans, or God forbid, the Japanese sent a topliner out here. These duds wouldn't see which way it went even if they started five minutes before and were allowed to cut across the infield.

What a total disgrace this Cox Plate field is. Having said that, it is still miles better than anything Winx ever had to beat.

I imagine Gaz and his aliases would like to reply but are too busy on another thread trying to name the barber who cut the hair of the jockey who came fifth in the 1929 Grong Grong Cup.

What a shocking Cox Plate we have this week. It is almost as bad as the four that Winx won. 

And what about the Manikato. That poor horse Manikato, I feel so sorry for him, having that dog of a field named after him. He would be rolling in his grave.

But both the above races are pretty much a perfect example of what Aussie racing has become. Pathetic quality.  

Nine lengths is a fair indication of the appalling quality of the opposition, not the brilliance of the winner.

Just look at Winx’s victories if you need an example.

Black Knight won Grafton Cup did he not? Then won Melb Cup.

Country cups aren't that bad. Especially if you win by 9 lengths.

Hello Khaptingly,

Dear oh dear haven't you become a demure sensitive little petal.

Or more correctly you have become a cowering whipped little 8!TCH in the manner of how your demeanor has now changed.

What happened to the gung ho oh so opiniated dill who was never backward in coming forward with all sorts of ill informed rubbish like the following?

"Fair dinkum. The tripe in the media this week is an embarrassment to Aussie racing. Banging on and on about Verry Elleegant the NZ'er and an overated horse that a few months ago won an Ipswich Cup."

Hey scoop, sorry to inform you that not only did Verry Ellegant not win the Ipswitch Cup but it DID NOT even start in it.

And this, in your opinion overrated NZ'er (presumably based on its imaginary Ipswitch Cup win) has shown you up to be the dill that you are as it has now been awarded the Australian Racehorse of the Year award.

Then you come back on here conducting yourself like a precious little flower having the audacity to ask "why I am putting down other contributors" like you for example.

Hey dopey, the answer is a simple one for you (operative word)

Because you post indefensible RUBBISH which you can not debate as it would appear that you could not debate yourself out of a wet paper bag.

I am happy to live in a world of differing opinions but by the same token I expect people to not become blubbering little weaklings as soon as I am critical of their opinion with justified facts supporting my contrary view.

The problem with you Khaptingly is that you are in FACT one of these blubbering little weaklings who does not have the intestinal fortitude or intellect to back up your own silly statements or arguments.

Khaptingly you said:

"The King, you should hang your head in shame for spending so much time in putting down other contributors."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, let me remind you of one your own little gem of a put down recently when you said:

"Speedy 2, obviously meaning you are twice as stupid."

If that's not denigrating another person, or putting down another contributor then I don't know what is!

Lets see you justify this MUG!

What a low sniveling hypocritical weak BA5TARD you are.

Sorry Khaptingly, I will NOT be hanging my head in shame.

On the contrary I will be standing proud on my Royal pedestal with my head held high in the knowledge that I can and have been able to debate the pants of you and all your cronies time and time again about the pros and cons of Australian racing.

Gees I feel SMUG   

Here's a tip Khaptingly, try checking the FACTS before posting then there will be less chance of continuing to look like a dill time and time again.

Or better still simply give up posting altogether as by now you must be starting to realize that you really don't cut the mustard as a bona fide  contributor to this forum.

Perhaps you should stand on the sidelines for a while and just read what others have to say.

This should be done in the hope that you may learn from others until you can hopefully then lift yourself above the level of a racing knowledge novice.

Following this you may then gain the confidence to come back on here with the hope of posting something sensible.

You do this for me Khaptingly and I will then give you this one time concession.

I will hang my head low and allow you to kiss MY ROYAL RING.

The King, you should hang your head in shame for spending so much time in putting down other contributors. Have a look at how many words you use to denegrate other person's opinions and actions e.g. criticism for grammatical errors. 

Laern to live in a socitey of diferent opinons. Also spned more time talking about the subject and defending your veiws e.g. List the 5 best horses that Winx defeated. Then name the top 5 Aussies horses of the last year.

Gary, Yes I see "Ask Question" how when I create content and press submit it comes up with "failed to create post".

It is a FACT that only three individual overseas born horses in the last twenty years have been considered good enough to be awardees of Australian Racehorse of the Year.

And the current minnow awardee Verry Elleegant was donkey licked by a fully Australian bred horse by the name of INCENTIVISE in its most recent start in the G1 Turnbull and yet we have this clown Khraptingly saying:

"How pathetic are Aussie horses." (Was there supposed to be a question mark at the end Khrapper?)

What, NO comment Khrapper?   

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS PATHETIC KHRAPPER

Grow a set ya weak b@5tard, you mouth off with a load of nonsense and are then too weak to come back on here and stand up for your convictions.

I think that Khrapper has been taking GOOSE lessons from Gladys.

Come to think of it where is Gladys these days she has been very quiet, perhaps she is still laying low licking her wounds after being beaten into submission time and time again by her KING. 

Gees I feel SMUG   

Khraptingly,

You said:

"How pathetic are Aussie horses."

"Verry Elleegant won the 2020-2021 Australian Racehorse of the Year, but it is a New Zealander."

"How pathetic are Aussie horses?????"

Hmmmm, cop this dopey, a totally Australian bred horse called INCENTIVISE after coming off a previous G1 win blew your lauded New Zealander away in the G1 Turnbull. (made it look like a cart horse)

Further to this 16 out of the last twenty years of the Australian Racehorse of the Year awards have actually gone to Australian bred horses.

The only three non Australian bred exceptions in the last twenty years were two very deserving classy individuals ala SUNLINE (NZ) and MAKYBE DIVA (GB)  {twice} oh and then there was your lauded NZ minnow Verry Elleegant who should not even be mentioned in the same breath as the other two CHAMPS as after all she was blown away by a pathetic fully Australian bred horse by the name of INCENTIVISE.

So lets digest that, 80% of the last twenty years Australian Racehorse of the Year have been Australian bred horses and here we have this fool Khraptingly moaning on about the pathetic state of the quality of Australian horses.

(Obviously if it wasn't for a couple of totally deserving overseas bred CHAMPS the percentage would have been way higher)

Yes an 80% success rate in regard to Australian Racehorse of the Year awardees being Australian bred is an absolutely remarkable result totally endorsing the QUALITY of the Australian racing and breeding industry when you consider the escalating number of overseas bred horses being brought into our country to race.

Also cop this dumbo, three out of four of your lauded New Zealander's grandparents are actually Australian bred horses.

Khap, 

Can you see "Ask Question" near top right when you log into forum?

How pathetic are Aussie horses.

Verry Elleegant won the 2020-2021 Australian Racehorse of the Year, but it is a New Zealander.

Zaaki, everyone has been banging on about this horse for months. It is favourite for the Cox Plate. It won't win it, but most think it will and it is favourite. It has won 2 Group 1 races in Aussie, but the best it could do overseas was win a couple of Group 3's when it defeated 5 others both times and place in a Group 2.

Just pathetic, very poor.

So I was right yet again  when I said:

"Food for thought (or in Khap & Glad's case non thought)"

What a pair of non thinking M0R0NS.

Gladys is saying that I am using ridiculous inverted logic, what the?

Correct me if I am wrong here but I have been comparing horses competing in the same races albeit in different years.

Now if you want to see real inverted logic take a look at:

Khraper who attempts to compare horses who did not even run in the same races in different years and or tells us that a particular horse won a particular race which it clearly did NOT and in fact never started in. (Ipswich Cup????)

NOW THATS WHAT I WOULD CALL GENUINE INVERTED LOGIC.

And then we have Gladys who takes inverted logic to a new pinnacle where instead of comparing the records of horses to other horses she wants to start comparing the records of horses with people or is it people with people or people with horses? ala comparisons George Moore with other people. What the???????

What has the record of George Moore got to do with the records of racehorses?

The last time I looked people were people and horses were horses.

NOW THATS WHAT I WOULD REALLY CALL THE PINNACLE OF INVERTED LOGIC.

So as far as I am concerned compared to you pair of dills my logic is perfectly sound particularly in the light that I clarified my direct comparisons as to whether they had any validity or not when I posed the following question in summary: (food for thought)

"Vow and Declare off this Tatt's form appeared to get better as the races got longer but will Insentivise display the same relish for longer journeys?"

GLADYS AND KHRAPER ARE BOTH CLUELESS

Using your ridiculous inverted logic then George Moore was a dud because he never won a Melbourne Cup and every jockey who has, must be better than him.

Branded,

1. The Channel Seven Stayers that Insentivise won by 9 1/2 lengths was only a Bench Mark 78 race.

2. Incentivise won the Tattersall's Cup G3 2200m open handicap by 12 lengths.

3. In 2019 Vow and Declare won this same race by only 3.3 lengths.

4. Following this race Vow and Declare ran 1.7 lengths 4th in the Turnbull

5. Vow and Declare then ran 2nd in the 2019 G1 Caulfield Cup when beaten 1 length.

6. He then won the G1 Melbourne Cup by 0.2 lengths with Prince of Arran running second.

7. Note - Prince of Arran has been placed three times in the G1 Melbourne Cup. (18,19 & 20)

Food for thought (or in Khap & Glad's case non thought)

Vow and Declare won a Tatt's by only 3.3 lengths whereas Incentivise won a Tatt's by 12 lengths

Vow and Declare could not win a Turnbull whereas Incentivise did win a Turnbull.

However Vow and Declare went on to run second a Caulfield Cup and win a Melbourne Cup beating a prolific Melbourne Cup place getter.

Vow and Declare off this Tatt's form appeared to get better as the races got longer but will Insentivise display the same relish for longer journeys?

Perhaps a detailed study of his pedigree may? give some clues.

My point is unlike Khraper I say discount Incentivise's form at your peril.

Remember it was Khraper who said:

"The Turnbull is another case in point. An Ipswich Cup winner can win a Group 1 in Melbourne a few months later, really," 

CLUELESS

Sphenophyta won the Ipswich Cup in 2006.Not sure of hoop.

Sphenophyta won the Turnbull Stakes in 2006.Danny Nikolic rode him.

Gladys your horse won the Tatts Cup by 12. At Eagle Farm. 

Start before was Stayers Final at Ipswich by 91/2.

Easy to get confused.

Hope I got it right ????

Khrap,

You wrote:

"The Turnbull is another case in point. An Ipswich Cup winner can win a Group 1 in Melbourne a few months later, really,"

What a load of CR@P, who's writing your material these days Khraper? 

My tip is that it must be Gladys as two independent people could not possibly be as silly as each other.

Correct me if I am wrong here but as far as I am aware the Ipswich Cup winner did NOT "win a Group 1 in Melbourne a few months later,"             

REALLY????   What a pair of B00F HEADS you both are!  

You have my ROYAL permission to now cringe and crawl back under your respective rocks and once again congregate and plot with the rest of the intellectual insects that reside there with you.

GOTCHA D0PEY!!!!!   

ha, haa, haaa, haaaaaaaaaa!

Can't wait for the response. What will it be?

Clown etc. No doubt. Completely brainless.

The idiot can't address the timeform rating nor explain a 9.5 length victory.

Numbers, facts and figures beyond the idiot.

What kind of moron gets $2 mixed up with 2/1?

The same moron who doesn't understand basic form.

Once again for the moron.

Name 10 horses better than Winx.

Come on try. Give it your best.

Na just say clown etc under your 3 names and whine like the 70yo bitter guy you are.

It was funny when I meet the guy who knew you. He said you were all bitter and twisted. Right he was.

It's actually really sad. Khrap on here for 20 years. Same rubbish every week. The loser must be 70yo now. Still a complete moron. Has  not learnt the basics of racing in 20 years.

I remember before he thought 2/1 was the same as $2 hahahahaha

Oh well he has his extra names to make him feel better.

124 timeform is fact.

You saying it's trash?

Come on 3 IQ boy.

Post your ratings.

Khrap/gladys/Lion flog

You should invent another name. Might as well. The other 3 have been proven duds. Hopeless loser for 20 years.

Really hurtful. Using 3 names to say the same trash.

Did you name 10 horses better than Winx?

Nope you just posted trash.

Did you explain why winning an Ipswich race by 9.5 lengths is bad form?

Nope just gibberish.

You have the IQ of a flea. Actually fleas are smarter. Sorry to insult fleas. They have more class than you and your 3 names.

Speedy was just as stupid when he was known as Weight Special.

It seems this Speedy clown has one thought at a time and madly rushes to thrash his keyboard before it escapes his cerebral vacuum. Immediately after posting he must sit and there and another gem permeates the vacuum and again he hits his keyboard. 

I agree with most things you say Khap but I doubt if this is clown has returned twice as stupid. That would be impossible.

124 time form for turnbull

Only been 2 better

Actually who did Kingston Town and Sunline beat? Bunch of donkeys.

Racing much better now. Way more depth.

Incentivise ran 201.46 in Turn bull. Faster than Sunline when she beat that goat Universal Prince.

Black Knight won the cup. What a Nuissance.

They wouldn't finish top 8 in modern times.

If anything the cups are way stronger with more foreign bred horses.

Gloria, you are the same dill you were 20 years ago. Repeating the same tired old garbage.

If a horse wins in Ipswich or Dubbo or Grafton it doesn't mean it is a dud like you.

Horses must go through grades. 

You were always a moron and always will be.

If horses in the 70s and 80s were better how much average times are faster?

Buy a clue.

Speedy you have not advanced in 20 years except change your name from Speedy to Speedy 2, obviously meaning you are twice as stupid. Please justify your defence of Aussie racing if you can or if you think it deserves defending.

A quick look a the markets for the Caulfield and Melbourne Cups tells me that Aussie racing is in dire straits and the lack of classy or even good, Aussie horses ensures that is where it is. A real debacle to be honest. I urge everyone to look at the markets on these two races, and others too if you wish, and just realise how bad it is. How could anyone be excited by the Spring Carnival, particularly these two cups. In fact I would be changing the name of the Caulfield Cup to the "2400m Open Handicap 16 Oct 2021" and the Melbourne Cup to the "3200m Open Handicap 2 Nov 2021". This years editions are an embarrassment, or they will be, and tarnishes the image, and is a blight on the history, of these two great races.

P.S. MODS PLEASE NOTE 

It appears that I cannot create new posts. Would this be true? Therefore, comments I have, need to be added to an existing post and therefore comments may be getting off the track from the original theme of the thread.

Ipswich cup is only 6 to 8 lengths off a good group 1. He won by 9.5 lengths.

Which means it is good form you halfwit.

Takeover Target won in Grafton. Ended up winning in Japan therefore Japan racing is bad? Same idiotic logic

So you can't name 10 better horses?thought so

You are just a dopey troll repeating the same garbage for 15 years.

Nothing better to do?

Oh look this race is bad 10000 times

Aus racing is terrible 10000 times

What a bloody sad life

Just have a look at the post of Theclown on 28 September Khap. Could anyone suggest that is the work of a sane person? Then we have this clown called Speedy. Perhaps his remedial teacher suggested to him that posting on this forum would help him in his quest to learn how to string two words together. Gaz, Theclown and this Speedy moron have to be one and the same. It is not possible to have three separate imbeciles all on the the one thread at the one time arguing the same tripe and not being able to name any horses.

You know you are right when no one can defend the perilous state of Aussie racing. The duds that win Group 1 races. Take today's Flight Stakes which I eluded to last night, BEFORE the race. 

The Turnbull is another case in point. An Ipswich Cup winner can win a Group 1 in Melbourne a few months later, really, This is a bloody disaster at all levels. Have a look at what it defeated. 

Then we had the Group 2 Hill Stakes of a million bucks prizemoney, Look at the dogs that ran in that. All 7 of them.

Yes this is a bloody disgrace.

Gloria,

Name 10 group 1 horses better than Winx???????

Should be easy if she beat nothing.

Idiot.

Well said Khap. What is worse is that one of these goats will win the race and then be referred to as a 

Group One winner. A few more Group races will be held with more goats contesting and then we will have another Group One winner. Give it a bit of time and these no hopers will all be in the one race and we will be told it is a high quality race because it is full of Group One winners. The same happened with Winx. Look at the Group One winners she beat. They all came through the same system, being best of the hopeless and attaining the title of a Group One horse.

If you ever had any doubt as the intellect of TheClown, have a look at the post below. Have you ever seen such tripe.I wonder how long until Gary manufactures Tufnel's name to add to his gang of imaginary supporters.

Ipswich win 9.5 lengths

What you want glades? 20 length wins???

Fool

Winx defeated b...all, on most occasions she beat duds, in fact I cannot think of one very good horse that Winx defeated. I am not the only one. Gary and his mates have struggled for years to even give us the five best that Winx defeated. So much so, they still have not provided an answer. 

Well she may as well make a come back and even if not fully fit, she would still be winning races. The current bunch walking around in Group 1's is overall deplorable. Those struggling around in Group 2 and Group 3's is even worse, and so on.

Fair dinkum. The tripe in the media this week is an embarrassment to Aussie racing. Banging on and on about Verry Elleegant the NZ'er and an overated horse that a few months ago won an Ipswich Cup. Not many can find a word for others in the race they contest this week, the Group 1 Turnbull Stakes. The field is an embarrassment compared to previous Turnbull's. 

While on the subject of the shocking quality of Aussie racing, what about the Group 2 Manifold Stakes. Just one horse has run a place in Group races in it's career to date. The Group 1 Flight Stakes does not have one goat that has a win or a place in a Group 1 and only 5 horses that have won or placed in other Group races. A total embarrassment.  

Tomorrow, most scribes will be dribbling through excitement. But have a real look at quality of the goats,what an overated herd. During the last decade I have said the quality of Aussie racing cannot get any worse. I was wrong. It has.

What no retort from Gladys?

I looks like Goofy Glad has fallen way, way down over the edge and into the putrid bog of her delusional mire once again.

You ha been defeated by a superior intellect.

Hi Glad, I am waving at you way, way down there in the putrid bog from way up here on my VICTORIOUS ROYAL KNOW ALL PEDESTAL that the plebs have erected for me.

Can you see me Glad or have you got too much putrid boggy p!g 5h!t in your eyes?

Suck eggs GOOFY, enjoy your humble pie as as you wallow in putrid boggy p!g 5h!t

Oh look poor Glad, is that p!g 5h!t dribbling out of her mouth or is it just a bit of 5L0PPY Zaaki poop?

You've got nuthin MUG!

Cheers from SPEEDY GARY KING.

Come on Gladys,

Forget about the poor attempts at levity, stick to the programme, answer the question MUG.

You are the one who made the rather bold and r3t@rded statement.

Just who are these corpses that Winx used to beat that are in your opinion :"ten times better than" the likes of HIGHLAND REEL, BENBATL & CHAUTAUQUA?

Name one, yes just one, one will suffice.

But if you fail to name at least one this will be an admission to the world that you are nothing more than a r3t@rded TONK.

Thanks for the accolades Gary, I mean Speedy or should I now be calling you SPEEDY GARY?

Yes I'm you too, troll.

Looks like matron is running late with the meds tonight. All we need now is for you to change into Super Gaz and continue your little deluded rant.

Well said King. This Gladis clown has no idea. Sad troll.

The form line thru the Arc is as good as it gets other than Japan cup.

World class. Top 3 races in world Arc Japan Cup and then best US race.

Gladys,

You said:

"Highland Reel was just at the beginning of his career when they met in australia,"

Poor little immature mite, he was 3years and eight months old when he was flogged by WINX and also beaten by Criterion.

It is a FACT that Highland Reel flogged  FLITSHIRE in the Hong Kong Vase G1 only approximately seven weeks later.

Boy oh boy he must have in your eyes matured a lot in those paltry seven weeks.

Note - FLITSHIRE had won the  Hong Kong Vase G1 the year before.

Note also that about the same time as WINX was flogging Highland Reel, FLINTSHIRE was being beaten 2 lengths by the great GOLDEN HORN in the Arc de Triomphe.

So rather than attempting to denigrate WINX or even Criterion you should be lauding the absolute quality of both these horses. (form line comparisons do NOT lie)

So lets recap that:

WINX flogs Highland Reel, then Highland Reel flogs FLINTSHIRE in a G1 some seven weeks later, and FLINTSHIRE had recently finished second to the great GOLDEN HORN in an Arc de Triomphe. 

That will do me, if you still fail to understand and or acknowledge the absolute quality of these form lines Gladys then I'm afraid that there is NO hope for you and I for one will not be bothering with attempting to explain the misgivings of your misguided novice racing opinions any further.

EAT CROW DOPEY!

Gladys,

You are the one who said:

"One thing is certain though, at least the duds he (ZAAKI) is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard."

And now you say:

"Name the good WFA horses he (ZAAKI) has beaten in Oz."

Come on Glad forget about asking us to:

"Name the good WFA horses he (ZAAKI) has beaten in Oz." as this should be much easier for you to do as after all you are the one who said:

"One thing is certain though, at least the duds he (ZAAKI) is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard. 

Surely if these horses are as you say ten times better than the corpses Winx used to beat eg. Highland Reel, Benbatl & Chautauqua then it should be very easy for you to nominate a couple of good WFA horse that ZAAKI has beaten in Australia.

Ya can't have it both ways DOPEY.

You are the epitome of self CONTRADICTION.

Put up or shut up MUG!

Is that all you have got Gaz? Highland Reel was just at the beginning of his career when they met in australia, not any international stage. He couldn't even beat Criterion home so that tells you how he ran that day. Benbatl was a Group Three horse who had to go to the Dubai to win a Group One plus another dud one out here. Chautauqua was a sprinter and she beat him over 1500 metres, a distance he never won at.

What else have you got...oh yeah. All those aged stayers, stablemates, non winners and other  duds that lined up in those guard of honour processions.

this bloke that has taken over her mantle was another non winner overseas that comes over here and looks like Phar Lap compared to the rubbish we have running at WFA. Name the good WFA horses he has beaten in Oz.

Come on Goosey Gladys,

Forget about enlisting your diversionary tactics once again.

Stick to the programme.

It is a FACT that you have made a rather bold and r3t@rded statement.

Now lets see you back it up with some factual answers.

ANSWER THIS QUESTION

Just who are these corpses that Winx used to beat that are in your opinion: "ten times better than" the likes of HIGHLAND REEL, BENBATL & CHAUTAUQUA?

Forget about your paranoia in regard to people having multiple identities.

Who cares, be this true or not true it is totally irrelevant to your apparent inability to answer the question posed above.

Failure to answer the question posed above will in my opinion and any other thinking persons opinion be a complete and utter admission that you have bowed and yielded to the superior intellect of YOUR KING!

PS

Welcome back to you Goofy Gladys, you were missing in action for some time.

Obviously you were in the mental asylum fighting your demonic paranoia obsession regarding multiple identities attempting to gang up on you.

Unfortunately given your continued insistence that the multiple personalities are still trying to gang up on you it would appear that you have lost the fight as your treatment does not seemed have worked.

Just amazing. Give the clown a bit of a prod and he furiously pounds the keyboard with total tripe. With his head spinning he then forgets which alias is he using for his drivel and reverts to his main one.

Welcome back Gaz. How was your stay in the mental asylum.

Sorry about that, unfortunately I posted in the wrong place, hmmmm, must have taken a wrong turn at Albuqereque.

Gladys,

You said:

"One thing is certain though, at least the duds he is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard."

GOOSE,GOOSE, GOOSE!

Just when was it tat Zaaki has beat a horse of the quality of Highland Reel (7/G1s and second in an Arc)?

Just who are these corpses that Winx used to beat that are in your opinion :"ten times better than" the likes of HIGHLAND REEL, BENBATL & CHAUTAUQUA?

Here's you big chance to show us that you are more than an immature 5implet0n novice racing lightweight.

Three examples will suffice (can you count to three?)

Come on D0P3Y put up or shut up MUG!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!!!

CHOISIR was the 3rd best sprinter in Oz. Went overseas and won.

SUNLINE won HK mile. While in Oz got beaten by OVER.

Most euro races are rubbish. Only 5 or 6 good races and only the Arc is really hard to win. M&P wins that, but bad time of year.

SO YOU THINK was poorly ridden. Yet was inferior 2400m horse to M&P.

Who did Sunline beat?

Moronic? Exactly your whole argument. You beat whats in front of you.

What a moronic comparison. With your lack of intellect I can only assume you are another one of Gary’s aliases. 
If perhaps you are not, then ponder this. Carl Lewis and Bolt competed at Olympics and World Championships and took on all comers. Winx and Zaaki took on duds in Australia. Any horse half decent could run time against the goats they faced. Care to tell us the best three weight for age horses he has beaten?

Who did Usain Bolt beat? Carl Lewis? No. Michael Johnson? No

Therefore Bolt was average. Beat duds.

Gladys logic!!

Class clown

Look at the 600m sectionals troll. Best ever for a 2000m horse in Aus. None better. KT beat worse horses btw.

It seems that some people like to give me that name when faced with the reality of what I say Speedy. Average horse flogging duds is not a champion in my eyes. If I am wrong perhaps you can appraise me of the quality that you say is there.

Gladys nice trolling. 

I don't know why people or syndicates spend such huge sums in buying yearlings and other young horses at Australian sales when all they need is to import a moderate Listed or Group Three horse from Europe to clean up the no hopers we have racing here at WFA.

The usual assortment of goats, camels, non winners and stablemates went out for a bit of a canter yesterday only to be once again flogged by an average import. One thing I did notice however, this current bunch of no hoping goats would put lengths on the statues that Winx used to beat.

All Zaaki's trainer needs to do is keep him fit and sound and the money will keep rolling in. This bloke is seven years old, couldn't win anything of note overseas, comes here and looks like Phar Lap reincarnated compared to our duds. One thing is certain though, at least the duds he is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard. A few horses off a merry go round would have flogged those duds. 

Hi Gary King,

Looks like Gary King was right once again when he wrote:

"As we know, and it has been proven time and time again on here when she has to start dealing with big numbers like two (as in two Garys) she is predisposed at going straight into her subsequent confusion mode."

AND

"Yeah, two GARY KINGS, she would not be able to cope with that no doubt about it it would probably be enough to send poor old Glad right over the edge."

Yeah looks like Goofy Glad has fallen way, way down over the edge and into the putrid bog of her delusional mire.

She has been defeated by a superior intellect.

Hi Glad, I am waving at you way, way down there from way up here on my VICTORIOUS ROYAL KNOW ALL PEDESTAL that the plebs have erected for me.

Can you see me Glad or have you got too much putrid boggy p!g 5h!t in your eyes?

Cheers from GARY KING.

Great come back Gladys, way better than you normally ??? come back with.

Did this one come from your 6yo alter ego that Gary King mentioned or did one of the other kids in the infants playground suggest it to you?

Thanks for the belly laugh boof head!

You really are a twat.

Cheers from Gary King

This is hilarious. 

Hi Gary well said!

I know that you are NOT Gary Crispe & you know that you are not Gary Crispe but fair go here Gary, you have to make allowances for Goofy Glad.

As we know, and it has been proven time and time again on here when she has to start dealing with big numbers like two (as in two Garys) she is predisposed at going straight into her subsequent confusion mode.

We have seen this trait from Goofy Glad many, many times before on here and no doubt we will continue to see it time and time again.

Now if you really want to put poor old Goofy Glad into an ultimate confusion tailspin how about we both start signing off as not Gary, Gary Crispe, King Gary or even theking, from now lets both simply sign off as GARY KING.

But then again is it even possible that she could be even more confused than she already is?

Yeah, two GARY KINGS, she would not be able to cope with that no doubt about it it would probably be enough to send poor old Glad right over the edge.

Cheers from GARY KING.

PS

Once she goes into her next delusional phase (when she thinks that she's got it all worked out) she will probably start calling me KING CRISPE, what a dope she is! 

Timeform Preview - 2017 Melbourne Cup

• 06 November 2017 by By Gary Crispe - racingandsports.com.au
  
  Class horses coming off group one weight for age form always run well in the Melbourne Cup which is why I am expecting a big run by Humidor in Australia's most famous race on Tuesday afternoon.
  
  Humidor had everyone stunned as he made a late burst at the great mare going down by a long neck at the judge. Now that the dust has settled on the Winx euphoria, the focus can now be on the effort of Humidor and what his prospects look like on Tuesday.
  
  Humidor with a Timeform rating of 129 is the second highest rated runner behind So You Think (133) to come off the Cox Plate and run in the Cup.   

I extracted and edited the above article from the web. I am not Gary Crispe, you idiot.

Gary re your posting to Gladys of: "I have given you the reference heaps of times where you told us all about Humidor being your selection Gaz, look it up"

And my posting to Gladys of: "And where is your proof that Gary tipped it to win the Melbourne Cup, a simple cut and paste of the text on here should not be too hard even for a DUNCE like you!"

Where is Goosey Gladys' PROOF? Answer = She's got nothing beyond "look it up" She reminds me so much of a second class kid in the infants school playground constantly saying no I'm right just because? And the other kids saying why are you right, where is your proof?

To this little Gladys' retort is always I'm right "JUST BECAUSE" and I don't need to prove it to any of you. And if you don't all shut up and leave me alone I will get my daddy who is a policeman to put you all in gaol. Or is it more like the other little kids saying you show me your proof and then Gladys saying over and over again no you show me yours.

Our legal system observed by "the adults" in our country is fortunately way above that experienced in the infants school play ground. That is Gladys you are the one making the allegation against Gary and under our legal system he remains innocent until he is proven guilty'. There is no onus on Gary to prove his innocence of your allegation.

Be an adult Gladys if you don't have PROOF you are required under our legal system to withdraw the allegation. In other words, put up or shut up MUG! Where is your PROOF infant br@in? A simple (operative word) cut and paste will suffice as PROOF.

Or is this supposed Melbourne Cup tip by Gary simply yet another example of one your delusions to be added to the long list of previously "PROVEN" examples already established on here?

Gaz, you know what it is. You then denied being the author. 

We all get things wrong in life Gaz, just move on. Next thing you will be denying is that Regumate Girl only beat no hoping duds.

You've made over 50 references to this Humidor Melb Cup prediction - and not once have you quoted it. 

I think you have multiple personalities and one of them is 6 year's old. 

That's really rich Gaz, thanking your alias for supporting you.

Now Gaz, you know where the reference is or are you suffering from identity confusion.

"I have given you the reference heaps of times where you told us all about Humidor being your selection Gaz, look it up"

The only time I have mentioned Humidor was on Oct 29^th, 2017 in relation to the 2017 Cox Plate. See below.

“Shinn (on Humidor) had cover for the entire journey. He was patient and economical and positioned his horse and timed its finishing run to perfection….(Humidor) was given a dream run in trying to beat a champion mare which was wide early, had no cover from the 900m, was agitated in the barrier, had recently been innoculated, and had its preparation compromised from being flattened when resuming...”

Now it’s your turn to put up the alleged quote, or stick a sock in your mouth.

Thanks for the support, King.

I have given you the reference heaps of times where you told us all about Humidor being your selection Gaz, look it up.

Speaking of Humidor as one of "our greats" is a total laugh. He won 9 times out of 50 starts, 18% and even in our pathetic Group Ones, he won a miserable 3 out of 30. His claim to fame is that he finished a close second to Regumate Girl in one of weakest ever Cox Plate.

No wonder you think Regumate Girl is the best in our history.

Gladys, re your: "He knows everything. He knew the winner of the Melbourne  Cup even though it ended up coming tailed off last."

Again, you are such an uninformed racing NOVICE Gladys! Humidor actually finished 19th out of 23 runners NOT tailed off last.

And where is your proof that Gary tipped it to win the Melbourne Cup, a simple cut and paste of the text on here should not be too hard even for a DUNCE like you!

I reiterate, where is your PROOF? In any case what is your point? Yeah. Humidor finished 19th in a Melbourne Cup at his first try at the distance, so what?

Many GREAT horses of the past have failed at their first attempt at 3200m or even at their first go in a Melbourne Cup. Correct me if I am wrong here but the GREAT Kingston Town went one worse than Humidor when he finished 20th in the 1981 Melbourne Cup, but most thinking racing people (as opposed to a NOVICE) do not hold that against him. 

You have no idea Gladys as you are and continue to be a bumbling uninformed racing NOVICE.

Your logic is mind numbing!

I always thought that a careless riding charge and interference were two different things. I always thought that just because a horse was hampered or interfered with it did not mean that a careless riding charge had to follow. But I must be wrong, because Gaz said so.

All those other things, well that would be speculation but not here. Why? Because big Gaz said so. He knows everything. He knew the winner of the Melbourne  Cup even though it ended up coming tailed off last. 

He is a genius! Just ask him.

Gladys,you are talking through your hat!

Here is part of the stewards report for the 2015 Cox PlateRace 9 - WILLIAM HILL COX PLATE (Group 1) - 2040 metres:

Criterion (NZ) - slow into stride. Checked off the heels of Winx near the 1600m. Checked severely near the 450m to avoid the heels of Winx which had improved to the inside of The Cleaner which after initially having shifted out was then straightened by its rider. In assessing the incident the Stewards could not be fully satisfied that Hugh Bowman (Winx) had a careless riding charge to answer, given the contributing factors in that The Cleaner, when being straightened, left insufficient room for two runners to the inside resulting in Criterion running out of room.

Highland Reel (IRE) - hampered at the 500m when bumped by Arod (IRE) which had been taken out.

Good horses make their own luck that's why they continue to win.

eg. Why was it that Lonhro was able to win from an impossible position in that famous Australian Cup or why was it that Kingston Town was able to win that Cox Plate when the broadcaster famously said "Kingston Town can't win or why was it that the great Bernborough continually won high class races from almost impossible positions even though the other riders were team riding in an attempt to get him beaten?

Answer = Just like WINX they were CHAMPIONS with big motors, heaps of courage and an exceptional will to win who simply had the ability to make their own luck when and if required.

Had WINX suffered the same interference as Criterion or Highland Reel just like Lonhro in that famous Australian Cup or Kingston Town in that famous Cox Plate she would have simply re composed herself, made her own luck, engaged her big motor then raced away to score a strong win.

I think you have got the finishing order correct except I would have Highland Reel and Criterion in front of Regumate Girl given the interference they copped in the race. I think the finishing margins are a bit exaggerated too as Sunline and Northerly would have been closer together. Given that Sons of John ran second to Regumate Girl perhaps he might well have reversed the order too.

Otherwise, pretty good analysis Gaz.

Gladys,

Further to my previous post, here's what I do know (unlike racing novice Gladys)

Some horse mature early and are outstanding 2yos but when they come back as 3yos many are then eating the dust of some of the 3yos that were not great 2yos as they have now matured into bigger and stronger horses.

The same goes for early 3yos and late 3yos and in fact many don't show there best until late 3y0s, 4yos, 5yos or even older (Reckless is a case in point)

The other thing that I have been trying to point out to you, poor old dopey drawers Gladys is about your extremely flawed argument where you are continually suggesting that that just because a horse like Ring Joe beats Vo Rogue as a 3yo then retires it does NOT mean that this horse would have necessarily gone on to become an even better middle distance WFA star than Vo Rogue.

Vo Rogue finished 15th out of 16 starters in the G1 Rosehill Guineas 2000m when beaten by Ring Joe.

They obviously were both 3yos at the time but coincidently they were both 3 years and 8 months old at the time.

I say coincidently as this is the same age that WINX began to blossom into the "CHAMPION" that she would become.

Not so for Ring Joe, as this horse retired soon after to take up stallion duties.

Ring Joe was a reasonably good horse but the Rosehill Guineas was his only Stakes race win & yes he did absolutely flog Vo rogue in this particular race prior to retiring but I ask you:

Do you as a racing novice or any other reasonably educated racing person think for one moment that Ring Joe would have developed into a more exceptional middle distance WFA star than Vo Rogue became?

Ring Joe had 16 starts for only one Stakes win.

Would the following horses that never won a Stakes Race but were able to beat beat Vo rogue as a 3yo also be considered as potential CHAMPIONS had they not retired?

Charson, Allison Michelle, Myamin, Nazali, Ben Barnie.....

Take your pick, gees that's 6 potential CHAMPIONS but its hard to imagine 6 potential CHAMPIONS all running around at the same time prior to retirement.

I dare say that one of them would end up proving to be the El Supremo CHAMPION based on the new found knowledge and guidance that I have received from Gladys I dare say that I would have to go for Nazali as after all he did flog Vo Rogue in a Murwillumbah Improvers.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Gladys will agree with me that Nazali would have developed into an even better middle distance WFA star than Vo Rogue.

But then again perhaps its far more likely that Gladys would probably insist that no they all beat Vo Rogue so they all would become even better middle distance WFA stars at the same time.

Yeah, I can see it now Gladys would have visions of all 6 of them being locked together with a 6 way dead heat in the Cox Plate.

The logic is mind numbing, how could any body genuinely be that simplistic in their cognitive processing?

Gary,

Re your recent comment:

"Was the sarcasm not evident?"

I say touch'e to that Gary but was not my sarcastic (tongue in cheek) ironic criticism of you equally evident to you?  ala... 

"Gees your thick Gary, you still don't get it do you."

AND

"Now here's the point that you don't seem to be able to grasp here Gary and that is that all of the horses that beat a CHAMPION as a 3yo must have also been CHAMIONS themselves!"

If you still don't get it Gary, in a round about sarcastic way I was attempting to indicate that not just you but everybody else except for Gladys must have it wrong with a belief of the nonsense that a horse that beats an eventual champion (WINX) as an early 3yo would have developed into an even BETTER CHAMPION than WINX had it not retired.

In any case why would I be genuinely attempting to criticise you King, i mean Gary because that would mean that I would be in fact criticising myself or would it be you, I give up these multiple personalities are becoming way too difficult to manage.

The 2015 Cox Plate finishing order – according to Gladys' logic

                                    Margin             Time

1^st Northerly               0.0 lens            2. 00.80           Track record

2^nd Sunline                 2.5 lens

3rd First Seal              4.0 lens           

4th Adrift                    7.0 lens

5th Fenway                 8.5 lens

6th Gust of Wind       10.0 lens

7th Winx                     14.0 lens          2. 02.98

8^th Sons of John         14.2 lens

9^th Foxplay                 14.3 lens

10^th Red Excite..         14.5 lens

11^th Criterion               18.5 lens

12^th Highland Reel      19.5 lens

Yes Gaz, three years and eight months. Is that the date when the last of the reasonable horses had retired and all that were left were stable mates, aged stayers and no hopers to race against.

Champion, no. Queen of the duds, yes.

King, she became a champion at 3 years and 8 months. Was the sarcasm not evident?

Gladys, it would appear that perhaps you have had a tiff with your buddy Khaptingly as any attempts to denigrate Humidor will also obviously work towards denigrating the perceived quality of Khap's latest idol Zaaki.

In other words the more you denigrate Humidor's ability when racing in his prime the more it serves to denigrate Zaaki's abilities by him not actually beating this arthritic old pensioner by the length of the straight as of course WINX, Kingston Town, Tulloch or Bernborough would have been able to do if they were racing in their respective primes.

Gees your thick Gary, you still dont get it do you.

WINX was not a great early 3yo as she was beaten a number of times by other horses prior to her maaturing into the CHAMPION that she would become.

Very much like one of Gladys' idols Vo Rogue if you ask me except that he was an even bigger dud as a 3yo.

The FACTS are that he had 17 starts as a 3yo for only 5 wins.

Here are 3 of those 5 wins as a 3yo:

He won 2/Gold Coast Improvers & 1/Doomben Progressive.

But what about all his defeats as a 3yo?

He was also beaten as a 3yo in 3/Gold Coast Improvers, 2/Sunshine Coast Improvers, 1/Murwillimba Improvers as well as being beaten in the following better class races:

The Debonair, Autumn Stakes, Australian, Guineas, Autumn Classic, Canterbury Guineas & Rosehill Guineas.

Now here's the point that you don't seem to be able to grasp here Gary and that is that all of the horses that beat a CHAMPION as a 3yo must have also been CHAMIONS themselves!

No Gaz, that is just your inverted logic.

They never raced against Sunline so I don't know the answer. They raced against Regumate Girl and flogged her so I know the answer to that.

If you don't know whether Sunline would have beaten the Fenway trio, then you're admitting that those three were on a par with Sunline!

I don't know Gaz and neither do you. They never met so who knows what would have happened. I imagine if that trio had to face the pathetic competition that Winx faced throughout her career, you know, stablemates, aged stayers resuming and general no hopers, then who knows what they might have achieved. What I do know however, is that they flogged Regumate Girl when they were racing.

Now I know you will have an opinion because you will rely on your ratings. Remind us all again about those ratings when they were used to assess Humidor's Melbourne Cup chances. You certainly raced for cover over that little embarrassment didn't you!

Would Sunline have beaten the Fenway trio? 

Gladys,

You are a fool, fool, fool yet again.

Yes, that's right Gladys thre times a fool once again.

It would appear that you have extreme difficulty counting above two.

Humidor actually won THREE G1s not 2 and as pointed out to you before this no mean feat when you consider that he had to race against WINX.

It was a lot more difficult to win G1s when WINX was around.

Of Humidor you said:

"This dud had 50 starts for 2, that is right, 2 pretend Group One wins both at Flemington where he beat a few other total no hopers."

No hopers?

What about the fact that he beat Jameka in the Australian Cup after she had already won a Caulfield Cup, VRC Oaks and then went on to win the BMW soon after.

Hardly a horse that most thinking racing people would call a no hoper!

Obviously this is only one example to show you up to be the FOOL that you are.

There is no need to provide further examples, this one example is proof enough yet again to establish the fact yet again that you are a newbie novice with very limited racing knowledge. 

FOOL, FOOL, FOOL

Gladys,

Wow. She won four Cox Plates because that trio of worldbeaters had prematurely retired? 

So, during the 6-7 month period that Winx was losing races (20/9/14 to 11/4/15), the Australian horse racing scene was blessed with multiple world champions and potential Cox Plate winners - and we didn't even know it!

Gaz, there are facts and there is speculation.

Those three horses flogged Regumate Girl. That is a fact. First Seal beat her home five out of six times. That is another fact. Those three horses all retired for various reasons. That is another fact. Regumate Girl went on to race the dregs that remained after those three retired. Another fact. Your statement that had they continued to race she would have beaten them. That is speculation.

Get the drift Einstein?

"Why don't you talk about Adrift, Gust of Wind or Fenway who all totally flogged her and would have continued to do so had they not been retired."

Gladys, this ranks as one of the most idiotic statements ever made on this forum.

You've named not one, not two, but THREE just okay horses that would have consistently FLOGGED a world champion, had they not RETIRED.

Moron.

Oh yes Gaz. Tell us all about Humidor, your top rated Melbourne Cup tip.

I love the part about Winx beating him "when he was in his prime". This dud had 50 starts for 2, that is right, 2 pretend Group One wins both at Flemington where he beat a few other total no hopers.

If you want to talk about horses then talk about First Seal. First Seal beat Regumate Girl home five out of six times. Why don't you talk about Adrift, Gust of Wind or Fenway who all totally flogged her and would have continued to do so had they not been retired.

I have been trying to coax poor old Khap out but it appears that he has gone to ground and hiding under his cowards rock of shame once again.

Here's some more WINX opposition versus Zaaki opposition for you to digest and KHRAP yourself over.

Boy oh boy it must be smelling awfully foul under your rock of shame by now!

WINX beat Humidor when easing down at the end by 7.3 lengths in the Turbull 2000m and 4.8 lengths in the Cox Plate 2040m when in his "PRIME" as a 5 and 6yo respectively.

Zaaki beat the poor old aging 8yo Humidor by 4.7 lengths in the lowly G2 Gold Coast Holindale Cup by only 4.7 lengths and then beat the same poor old pensioner by 12.5 lengths in the Doomben Cup when as reported his arthritis was playing up.

Another report said that the jockey indicated that he thought poor old Humidor appeared have forgotten where he was or what he was supposed to be doing in the race, he said that he seemed like he was off with the fairies.

Poor old Humidor couldn't wait to get home to take his arthritis pills and hang out with the rest of the other aged horses at the halfway house retirement paddock.

This is undeniable, obviously Humidor would have flogged the early 6yo Zaaki if he was racing against him in his PRIME as a 5 or 6yo.

Gees, what's happened to Khap, he's gone real quite since he was shown up to be the Dunce that he is.

I was sure that he would have been back on here skiting about the superior to WINX opposition form lines around Zaaki.

Like how Paths of Glory had "BEATEN" Zaaki over 2000m.

Paths of Glory then went to run 4th to Inverloch in the Wagga Waga Cup 2000m Listed Race.

Paths of Glory then finished 3rd in the 2032m Premier's Cup G3 when beaten by Spirit Ridge who previously had only been able to manage to finish 2nd in that same lowly Listed Wagga Waga Cup 2000m.

There is no dispute these are the form lines surrounding Zaaki in and around 2000m.

This is what I like about you Khap, its a certainty that whenever you are given enough rope you will not only hang yourself but will also shoot yourself in the foot multiple times.

You said: "So who were those? Nothing of the quality of Zaaki."

Nothing of the quality of Zaaki. ????? you are even sillier than I thought.

Zaaki has only won 1/G1 at Doomben, 1/G2 at Gold Coast, 1/G3 at York, 1/G3 at Epsom Downs.

He also failed miserably in the G1 Hong Kong Mile when finishing 8th out of 10 starters and similarly was well beaten into in our own feature mile the G1 Doncaster Hcp in the Sydney Autumn racing carnival.

Let me know when Zaaki has won a Cox Plate or even been placed in a G1 in somewhere other than Qld and or during the racing carnivals of Sydney or Melbourne in the Spring or Autumn in G1 races or better still at some of the elite tracks overseas.

Who knows you may be right, he may well turn into a real topliner but "at present" he really has not proven himself beyond beating a mob of mostly lowly performed imports and "YOUR" accolades at PRESENT are completely unjustified.

Khap, you are getting carried away with giving unsubstantiated accolades to a known GB G3 class horse who just happened to beat up on a field of similar or even lesser performed overseas horses in the off season in Qld of all places.

Off season meaning NOT the Sydney or Melbourne Spring and Autumn racing carnivals.

And to partially quote you with your own words Khap I offer the following:

KHAP proves again that he is the boofhead. Its no point telling us how wonderful Zaaki is unless you tell us how many imports ran in those races and what level they reached at home. Sure lowly performed imported horses will win G1's, mainly they are simply knocking off worse imported horses. You may not have realised this, KHAP, but if hypothetically you have 10 overseas horses in a field of 10, one of them will win the race, if there is no dead-heat, no matter how slow they all are.

Even Benbatl who WINX flogged has far superior form to Zaaki.

Benbatl 3/G1 wins including Caulfield, Munich & Meydan, oh and I think I recall that he also ran rather well in our own G1 Cox Plate when you consider that he really did not have any hope of beating the CHAMPION mare WINX.

He has also won 3/G2 at Maydan & 1/G2 at Newmarket.

And also 1/G3 at Meydan & 1/G3 at Newmarket

Benbatl who WINX flogged has far SUPERIOR form to Zaaki.

And what about Highland Reel that WINX also flogged, he also has far, far SUPERIOR form to Zaaki.

Highland Reel won 7/G1s, 1/G2 & 1/G3 and also ran 2nd in the following G1 races:

Hong Kong Vase, Arc de Triomphe, Prix Du Jockey Club.

In summary in regard to your reposting and posting of the following:

"When you look at a CHAMPION mare such as WINX you are constantly attempting to discredit this great mare who absolutely FLOGGED the same quality of overseas horses that attempted to beat her."

"So who were those? Nothing of the quality of Zaaki."

I will now reiterate the point made to you before as it would appear that once again you have either forgotten what you have been told or you do not have the cognitive ability or comprehension to absorb the following FACTS. (WINX's form being franked)

Re your: "Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" 

He would probably answer you with something like the following:

What sort of a racing novice git are you?

Not much to consider in this answer ya pillock, the form was more than franked by Highland Reel in an Arc."

Followed by the "HILARITY" of laughter from Mr. Haggas and The KING at your expense."

Let me know when and if Zaaki ever qualifies for or gets to start in the Arc ya bonehead!

Theking said:

"When you look at a CHAMPION mare such as WINX you are constantly attempting to discredit this great mare who absolutely FLOGGED the same quality of overseas horses that attempted to beat her."

So who were those? Nothing of the quality of Zaaki.

When you see names such as Red Excitement, Sons of John and Foxplay as the best horses she beat no wonder he doesn't answer for a few days. Poor Khap is probably in convulsions laughing his head off at what you assess as good.

You thought Humidor was exceptional too didn't you Gaz. How did he go in that Melbourne Cup you talked him up in?

Khaptingly,

You said:

"there is another startling fact, well actually it is not surprising, but only one Aussie bred horse ran in this Group 1 race."

"What a shocking state of affairs but this has been the case for the best part of a decade now."

THANKS SCOOP, it appears that the penny has now finally dropped for you.

This is NOT a revelation from you SCOOP, there are only approximately 33% of our G1 races run over distances of 2000m or more.

That means that if you also include the proliferation of high prizemoney non Group races invented races such as the Everest, Magic Millions races, Golden Eagle, All - Star Mile etc... all under 2000m you are able to target your sprinter / miler type bred horses at it then becomes something like possibly very close to 80% or more of the highest prize money races on our racing calendar being under 2000m.

My point is that it costs a minimum of $50k (not including the purchase price) to find out if your horse has any indication of ability, even in a trial, then why would you bother to breed or purchase a staying bred type horse?

I you breed or purchase a staying bred type horse it is even a longer and more expensive road before you find out whether it has any middle or staying distance ability (In most cases you will be broke by then)

So why would you ever consider putting your money into either breeding or purchasing a staying bred horse?

Its hard enough to get any substantial return on a sprinter / miler let alone a stayer, hence our more informed choice to opt for sprinter / miler type bred horses and in most cases even specifically bred sprint only types with a view to hoping for a return on our investment.

Mind you there are no hard and fast rules some sprint bred type horses turn out to be stayers and some staying bred type horses can even turn out to be sprinters.

Further to this Khap you can't have it both ways.

One minute you are saying just how great these G2 & G3 level overseas horses are when they towel our supposed Aussie Group type horses

BUT

When you look at a CHAMPION mare such as WINX you are constantly attempting to discredit this great mare who absolutely FLOGGED the same quality of overseas horses that attempted to beat her.

Like I said you cant have it both ways.

Gary,

You asked:

"And each time they've been posted, you shut up for a few days and then repeat the same question! Why?"

Gary I think there is possibly a choice of two answers to this one, take your pick.

Answer 1.

Poor old Khap simply forgets that he has asked the question before.

It appears to me that time and time again he simply thinks that he has come up with some sort of revelation.

He then unwittingly asks the same question again thinking that he has come up with something new and not realising what a bore he is by continuing to repeatedly ask the same question over and over again.

Alternative answer 2.

Khaptingly = Little Sir Echo

"Neither yourself (Gary) or Theking can give us the names of the best five horses that Winx defeated."

Khap, I guarantee you that this thread and other Winx threads contain at least half a dozen instances when the top 5 or even the top 20 were put up. And each time they've been posted, you shut up for a few days and then repeat the same question! Why?

Evidence? Where is the evidence? Neither yourself (Gary) or Theking can give us the names of the best five horses that Winx defeated. I would not call that backing up your opinion or judgement. You could not provide five names between the two of you and no one else could either. Why is that I wonder? Just write 100's of words to convince yourselves but don't come up with any evidence of Winx defeating a decent horse. 

Khap, 

The King backs up his assertions with evidence. The best you can do is call him a gullible "sole". Both you and Gladys must have lost bucketloads during that winning streak. Who in their right mind would have thought she'd win that many? Not you, that's for sure! 

Theking, fancy spending all that time writing something in trying to convince yourself. No one really cares what you think. I even noticed you have bolded some words. What...having trouble getting your point across. Next you will be swearing. I never read your mumblings, I just saw it was there. Winx was overated, beat nothing and who cares what gullible soles like yourself, believe.

Thanks for the accolades King Gary 

Hey Gladys, how coincidental is it that both Gary, theking & King Gary have all started to use emojis at the same time?

correct me if I am wrong here but I have NEVER seen theking use an emoji before.

Cheers from,

His Royal Highness King Gary, the reigning king of the principality of Gary Land ????? 

Wish I could click "LIKE" for King's post! 

Gary & Gladys,

Gladys re your:

"No Gaz. I rubbish the opposition that they raced."

Two can play at that game Gladys, see below, read em & weep dopey! 

Gary re your:

"Sunline won 2 Cox Plates and then Northerly won two Cox Plates"

"They were all good horses but none of them would meet the definition of "champion" by today's standard."

How TRUE THIS is!

It is a FACT that Northerly had the wood on Sunline, she ran second to him twice and fourth to him on another occasion.

So there we have it Northerly beat Sunline three times but how many other very good or in many cases lesser lights of her racing era also beat this supposed CHAMPION mare?

The answer is embarrassing! 

Sunline was beaten by the following horses:

2nd to Rose O' War, 5th to Intergaze, 2nd to Adam, 2nd to Shogun Lodge, 4th Allez Suez, 7th to Jim and Tonic, 2nd to Over, 2nd to Fairway, 3rd to Jim and Tonic, 3rd to El Mirada, 2nd to Piavonic, 2nd to Northerly, 2nd again to Northerly, 3rd to Defier, 2nd to Lonhro & 4th to Northerly.

She was beaten by Jim and Tonic twice, once where she finished finished 7th and once when she finished 3rd.

I am not going to suggest that Jim and Tonic was not a very good horse but was he ever described as being in or near being listed in the CHAMPION class?

No he was not but he still managed to flog the pancake champion Sunline on both these occasions.

The reality is that Sunline had 48 starts and was beaten by the horses listed above on 16 out of those 48 starts i.e. 16/48 = 33%

She was beaten 33% of the time by not only some very good horses but also by many of the lesser lights of her racing era.

Is this the mark of a CHAMPION mare?

And the reality is that NORTHERLY has a similarly embarrassing list of very good horses and lesser lights of his racing era that beat him and in more than one case on multiple occasions.

He had 37 starts but was beaten on 18 occasions 18/37 = 49%

He was beaten 49% of the time by not only some very good horses but also by many of the lesser lights of his racing era as the FACTUAL list below will PROVE.

He was beaten by Old Habits, Grand Beau, Exit Lane, Greenstone Charm, Corporate Bruce, Old Comrade TWICE, Barkada, Tribula, Magical Miss, Yell, Mr Trickster, Republic Lass, Grand City, Freemason, Royal Minx, Elvstroem TWICE.

Not too many household names there.

How many of these horses will even be remembered ten years from now?

I am not going to suggest that Old Comrade was not a very good horse but was he ever described as being in or near being listed in the CHAMPION class?

No, he was not but he still managed to flog the pancake champion Northerly on both these occasions.

These are NOT my opinions Gladys, they are the FACTS.

Gladys re your: "No Gaz. I rubbish the opposition that they raced."

I challenge you to rubbish a true CHAMPION such as WINX in the same manner that I have rubbished both of your supposed champions SUNLINE and NORTHERLY.

That is lets see you put up a list of the number of starts WINX had and the the very good horses and lesser lights of her racing era that beat her and also the % of times that she was beaten.

I am NOT interested in you lame novice opinions Gladys, I simply challenge you to present the FACTS in the same manner that I did.

Put up or shut up you racing novice MUG!    

"I rubbish the opposition that they race"  What's your basis of measurement?  You have no idea.

Sunline won 2 Cox Plates and then Northerly won 2 Cox Plates and then Fields of Omagh won 2 Cox Plates. They were all good horses but none of them would meet the definition of "champion" by today's standard.. 

No Gaz. I rubbish the opposition that they raced. Name one horse that Winx beat that would have troubled either Northerly or Sunline. Maybe you might think Humidor. You were certainly all over it in the Melbourne Cup a few years ago, much to your now embarrassment.

Not only did Zaaki towel the opposition, there is another startling fact, well actually it is not surprising, but only one Aussie bred horse ran in this Group 1 race. What a disgrace. The state of breeding and quality of Aussie horses reaching the racecourse is at an all time low.  Obviously there were issues with the 2nd and 3rd favourites, Irish bred horses, who finished last and 2nd last. The 4th favourite was also bred in Ireland. The dominant winner was bred in Great Britain. These 4 horses represented just on 90% of the market on this Group 1 race. This is less than a couple of recent Melbourne Cups though. What an total disgrace. 

For the record the only Aussie bred horse that ran in the race was Nettoyer.

What a shocking state of affairs but this has been the case for the best part of a decade now. No wonder the sheep, the gullible, fell all over Winx. How long can Aussie continue to breed such goats, that sees this nation hardly represented in major races of 2000m and beyond. In the meantime, thank goodness for the imports. They are keeping our major racedays alive. 

Winx just got lucky. Beat nothing, did not win beyond 2200m and would not have got near Zaaki. She was just lucky more imports did not come over here to race at the time. Even more so, imagine if they had bought over the best from Japan. They would have left her in their wake. She was overated, but the gullible fell for it.  

Love the horse first

And the sport second.

"You rubbish our previous champions because you can't name one good horse that she beat. What does that say about you!"

You rubbish Winx and Black Caviar. What does that say about you?

You rubbish our previous champions because you can't name one good horse that she beat.

What does that say about you!

Sunline was a miler and won two Cox Plates. What does that say about her opposition?

Northerly won two Cox Plates beating a miler (Sunline). What does that say about Northerly?

One thing you haven't been able to do Gaz is open up any information about the names of the good horses.

Look at that horror show yesterday. Our so called Group One WFA superstars up against a six year old English horse who's claim to fame is to win two Group Three races against five opponents in each case. This horse had no future in the UK and was onsold cheaply to the land of deluded Winx fans and what has happened? Two absolute floggings against horses that were better than the duds Winx beat.

The only way this horse will be beaten is if someone in the UK with an underperforming listed/Group Three horse who has no future over there decides to come out and enter the pretend WFA races against no hoping goats.

It seems I have opened up a can of idiots.

I was just looking at the time of today's race. Now I know the Rev Gary loves preaching about Winx's times as that is al he has to rely upon.

Well, the UK Group Three horse today flogged those no hopers in 2.01.06. Might and Power ran over 2020 metres, 20 metres more than today's race and clocked 2.00.

He would have beaten today's winner by 5 lengths on that time. As for the rest, the staff would have been out with torches tonight looking for them.

Just have a look at the Doomben Cup today. The winner was an ordinary Group Three horse in the UK and sold cheaply because it had no future over there.

It comes out here and absolutely towels these pretend WFA goats that we have and is now favourite for the Cox Plate.

Those duds that she beat today were miles better than the no hopers Winx used to beat.

They must be laughing their guts out back in the UK when they see what we call a Group One WFA race.

"If no one listens to me Gaz why have you spent literally years responding to every word I post." Khap and Fairburn listen to you and I can tolerate stupidity up to a point. 

"If you are not one and the same with Theclown, then why are your posts identical". Wow! Show me!

"Did your alias also declare Humidor in the Melbourne Cup" Another $10,000 for you, if you can bring up the post.

Get something right Gladys, come on girl, you can do it!

If no one listens to me Gaz why have you spent literally years responding to every word I post.

This alias denial of yours has me amused. If you are not one and the same with Theclown, then why are your posts identical. Did your alias also declare Humidor in the Melbourne Cup he finished tailed off?

Got any names yet?

Gladys.

Further to my:

"You are one very confused individual.

What actually was Makybe Diva's fastest ever win in a G2 Turnbull stakes?"

If times are your new criteria for comparison of these two great mares then its only fair that we compare apples with apples.

Same course in the same race and at the same distance both on a good track.

Makybe diva had three attempts at winning a G2 Turnbull Stakes.

She finished 4th, then7th & eventually won one at her third attempt.

WINX had two attempts at winning a G2 Turnbull Stakes and won both.

WINX's best time was 2:01.60 whereas Makybe Diva's best and only race winning time was 2:01.57.

This equates to Makybe Diva beating WINX by a nostril. 

Therefore one would have to deduce that if Makybe Diva was a CHAMP then WINX must also have been a CHAMP.

Gladys,

If WINX is NOT around then Happy Clapper achieves a far superior record.

His current Group wins (let alone placings) currently are:

If not running 2nd to WINX on many occasions his record would then presumably have the addition of the following Group wins:

G1 Chipping Norton

G1 George Ryder

G1 Optimo White Stakes

G1 Doncaster

G2 Apollo Stakes

That would then have been a total of 7/G1 wins,  3/G2 wins,  2/G3 wins

(not too many horses can achieve a record such as this)

And who knows, had he not had to burn himself out time and time again attempting to beat WINX his racing career may well have been extended and he may well have been able to win even more Group races prior to retiring.

Obviously if WINX had never been born then WE, collectively

(educated and experienced thinking racing minds)

(as opposed to racing novices)

would then have very likely been lauding Happy Clapper as the CHAMPION of the era.

Therefore it is an undeniable fact, that WINX was able to completely dominate a horse that would have ordinarily been lauded as a CHAMPION had WINX not been around and this is PROOF, even to the uneducated racing novices of her once in a century CHAMPION qualities.

What would have been lauded as a CHAMPION was categorically DOMINATED by the once in a Century CHAMPION qualities of WINX.

Game set and match, no more needs to be said.

The same can be said for BLACK CAVIAR.

BLACK CAVIAR completely dominated Hay List whenever they met.

Hay List won 3/G1 sprints and ran 2nd in other 5/G1 sprints

(4/5 of these 2nds were to BC)

It is a widely held view that Hay List would have been the CHAMPION sprinter of his era except for having to race against BLACK CAVIAR.

Bl!nd Freddy can see what a CHAMPION sprinter BLACK CAVIAR was, one only has to take a look at the way she dominated the world class sprinters Hay List and  Buffering (7/G1s) in the 2012 Lightning.

Buffering was proven on the World Stage as was BLACK CAVIAR

No more needs to be said, particularly from you Goosey Gladys as you like the little boy who cried wolf too many times have made a F00L of yourself way too many times.

No one is listening to you any more as they do not value the opinion of a F00L.

Cheers from KING Gary, thanks for the belly laughs Glad.

The fact that you think the King and I are the same person is further proof that you don't have a clue about anything.

$10,000 straight to your bank account if you are ever proven correct. I will even accept your utterly stupid proposition that Northerly and Sunline would towel Winx, which according to you, would collapse at 600 metre mark. 

Idjut

Whenever you are asked for the names of the good horses she beat Gaz you assume an alias and try to divert the conversation as you know you can't name one, not one. They were all duds.

Gladys,

Re your: 

"If Vo Rogue had been leading the Turnbull she would have collapsed at the 600 metre mark.

Imagine how fast MD must have been going to run the time that she did. She averaged 60.5 kph for the trip so given that the first part of the race would have been marginally slower and the time she ran, imagine her sectionals."

Why is tis relevant?

You are one very confused individual.

What actually was Makybe Diva's fastest ever win in a G2 Turnbull stakes?

You are such a NOVICE dopey

Obviously by banging on about a second means more to you and provides a great diversion from the fact that she got no where near the time of MD Gaz, despite the facts she was only racing total no hopers.

Got any names yet?

Gladys re your:

"Tell me about my maths Gaz You don't think 1 min 58 seconds and a bit is almost 4 seconds faster than 2 mins 2 seconds."

What the fuc&, you still don't get it do you?  (the simple maths I mean)

The sad thing is that you don't even have primary school maths abilities required for you to realise that you are wrong, wrong, wrong!

Whoa, you have now PROVEN yourself to be way, way dumber than even I ever thought you were in the past.

This one really takes the cake!

Here, I will take the place of the REMEDIAL MATHS teacher for you Gladys in the hope that you may gain an understanding as to just how wrong you are.

You rounded 1.58.73 down to 1.58.0.

Why round down to 1.58.0 when 1.58.73 is very nearly 1.59.0?

And then even if a dunce like you can accept this rounding up to attempt to make the maths simpler for you then hopefully you now have, due to my remedial guidance an understanding of the following.

If we round 2.02.07 down to say 2.02.0 and we round 1.58.73 up to 1.59.00 then hopefully even you (after remedial guidance) can now understand the following.

2.02.0 - 1.59.0 = only 3 seconds not 4 seconds.

The actual fact of the matter is that the real answer is a little over 3 seconds but it is way closer to 3 seconds than it is to 4 seconds.

Perhaps you may understand it better if I put it in old school fractions for you Gladys, one can only hope.

Here perhaps a bumbling old school oaf such as yourself may have a better understanding if I say the the difference between these two times is not 4 seconds or even the much more accurate rounded 3 seconds but the actual answer is approximately 3 1/3 seconds.

Here's a tip for you Gladys.

If in the future you don't actually understand something (like basic maths) you are better to simply not comment and let everybody have the suspicion that you may be a F00L rather than posting STUPID!TY which then proves beyond a shadow of doubt that you are in fact a F00L.

That said, given the amount of times that you have regularly proven yourself and been proven by others time and time again to be an absolute dimwitted racing novice, why would anybody take any notice of you and your mostly inept, inaccurate and confused posts on here?

YOUR KING has proven you to be an absolute F00L once again.

There is a vacant position in my court for a new Jester, I think from memory the add says only F00L5 need apply.

Why don't you apply for it Gladys?

I for one would vouch for you and I am sure that many others on here would attest to the fact that you are a competent and talented F00L

Kiss my Royal ring F00L   (thanks for the belly laughs)

"Two seconds or four seconds, who cares"

Exactly. Thanks for admitting that you can't count.

Isolated track records mean nothing.  Winx's resume is full of fast times and brilliant sectionals Consistently running fast times OR fast sectionals means plenty, except to a speed novice like you. 

.

Two seconds or four seconds, who cares. She would have beaten her by 10 lengths instead of 20 lengths.

This tripe about Winx would have loved the pace. She ran behind stablemates who weren't leaders who just gave up at the 400 metre mark and formed a guard of honour.

"Don't restrict it to just two horses in N and S to try and prop up your feeble argument" No, let's not restrict it to two horses that you've said were clearly superior to Winx! Makybe Diva would have also crapped on N & S.

Makybe loved it when Niagra Falls clapped on the speed in the same way Winx would have. Both real champs with high cruising speed and multiple gears. 

How do you get 4 seconds difference dopey?!

Race tempo Gaz. Don't restrict it to just two horses in N and S to try and prop up your feeble argument.

Tell me about my maths Gaz You don't think 1 min 58 seconds and a bit is almost 4 seconds faster than 2 mins 2 seconds.

Who were the great ones she beat in those Cox Plates Gaz?

"Carving it out"?!

Bring it on! Thats what she loves!  

Where, from the table below, does any of your tripe make sense?!

Who knows Gaz. Northerly or Sunline would have been up the front carving it out, not hiding back in the pack behind slugs. If Vo Rogue had been leading the Turnbull she would have collapsed at the 600 metre mark.

Imagine how fast MD must have been going to run the time that she did. She averaged 60.5 kph for the trip so given that the first part of the race would have been marginally slower and the time she ran, imagine her sectionals.

Yay, Gladys finally got another course record right unlike the couple of dopey ones she pasted recently

BUT

Even so it still doesn't forgive your inability to get simple subtraction calculations correct.

ie. "that's almost four seconds faster."

What a dunce.

Like I told you before Gladys you are the epitome of of a loud mouthed racing novice who is always getting anything to do with calculations wrong and who desperately needs to get herself along to a beginners REMEDIAL MATHS class.

They were loafing in front and she was hopelessly boxed in at the rear. She had to thread her way through and clock 70kph to run them down in the straight.

Do you think N & S could have done that?.

Thanks for your edifying comments Gaz. If I am correct that is the race she managed to beat some real top liners, If memory serves me she beat Ventura Storm and Humidor. Following those two champions home were Assign, Sir Isaac Newton, Magicool and Skyfire, a big field of seven, all champions,. Look at the time, 2.02.07, yep, doesn't get much better than that. You have proved your point, I don't know what I was thinking.

Oh hang on, what's this? Makybe Diva holds the track record for this distance at 1.58.73, that's almost four seconds faster. How fast was she going Gaz? I think one second equates to about 5 lengths doesn't it Gaz. What's 5 lengths by 4 seconds Gaz?

Got any more great facts you want to rely on?

"Any horse can do anything if they are only running against duds Gaz."

She clocked 70kph in the 2000m TURNBULL Stakes. That's great TURN of foot, and you're full of BULL.

Any horse can do anything if they are only running against duds Gaz. The Clerk of the Course's horse would look like Bernborough racing against the no hopers she raced.

Tell us all the names of the good horses she was doing these spectacular feats against.

How many more times are we going to answer the same stupid question? You are living in fantasyland if you think N & S would get anywhere near her. The conversation should be how she compares to other world champs like Secretariat, not N & S, for goodness sake.

Here's a physicist, Graeme Putt's view on her extraordinary ability.  I doubt that it will mean anything to you, because your head is so far up your a....

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/science-says-winxs-extraordinary-ability-to-lift-stride-rate-the-key-to-stunning-winning-run-20170406-gvfa4l.html

Of course you don't Gaz. I think a more appropriate response would have been to concede that you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

No Flapper, he was not. They ran over 1200 metres and it was the fastest of the day.

Now, back to the question. Who would have been the El Supremo for those years if she had not been in the race. Get your big yap going on that Flapper.

"Might and Power.. broke 33 seconds for the final 600 metres and didn't even look like he was trying. ..Alan Denham..dismissed the track gallop as..when there was no pressure it was easy for racehorses to clock fast times.."

Denham was referring to the fast "final 600 metre" sectional, not "fast (gross) times" you boofhead. 

I remember years ago being at Rosehill when Might and Power had a gallop between races with a stablemate. He broke 33 seconds for the final 600 metres and didn't even look like he was trying. I heard Alan Denham interviewed a few days later and he dismissed the track gallop as being of little meaning. He said that when there was no pressure it was easy for racehorses to clock fast times and that they meant little. He went on to say that in competitive races it would be hard to replicate these times if you were running against very good horses. He also said that most maidens and lower class horses ran faster times on a given raceday then the higher classed racehorses running in later races on that day, over the same distances.

Now have a look at the place getters in those Cox Plates you highlighted. Which of those, if any, would give any reasonable horse any pressure.  Humidor, (your Melbourne Cup special), Hartnell, a handicapper, perhaps Folkswood or Benbatl, two horses that struggled to win at Group Three in the Uk, Criterion who won seven out of thirty six races, Yankee Rose or I know, cue, wheel out Highland Reel, he did some good stuff later on.

Given that the Cox Plate is the Australian WFA title, if she had not started one of those donkeys would have been the el supremo.

Which one Gaz? 

Look at the table below. Eight classic examples of a faster tempo and a faster finish. 8 out of 8.
On the one occasion that she did enjoy a luxury 89 second tempo, she rocketed home in 33.75, won by 8 lengths and was eased up in the last 40 metres. The finishing sectionals tell us unequivocally she would have slaughtered N & S.

"How hard is it to get through your thick skull that times equate to tempo, not class"

Gladys, are you saying that dashaway Sunline, who virtually led in every one of those four Cox Plates, did NOT set a fast tempo?

And if the tempo was indeed comfortable and slower, then shouldn't their finishing sectionals be much faster than Winx's?

Can't have it both ways. Fast tempo with slow finishing sectional OR Slow tempo with fast finishing sectional. 

Sure, there can be occasional aberrations, but what we have here is 8 out of 8 aberrations.

Gladys,

Your most recent post is undeniable proof positive yet again that you are living in the Goosey world of the past where everything racing was bigger and better than it is today.

When you stop trembling enough to address just how has your KING has made a GOOSE out of you once again, I suggest that you do some research on the current course records.

And if you have any guts apologise for your continued NOVICE ineptness and correct same with a post on here with the correct information.

I'm a GOOSEY girl living in a PAST and GOOSEY world where everything was so FANTASTIC and my skirt was made of PLASTIC!

Get out of the twentieth century Glad ar5e

Gladys,

Re your:

"Tell me again how great our WFA horses are and how strong our Group races are"

Glady, you are constantly telling us how our WFA races were stronger in the past.

But were they actually stronger in the past?

While on the current subject of the G2 WFA Hollindale Cup and or how strong our WFA races were in the past, lets take a look at how well one of your WFA idols fared in this same race.

Slow Rougue finished a miserable 6th in his one and only attempt at this race when he had everything in his favour, WFA conditions and over his pet distance of 1800m. (He was not very well suited at 2000m or more)

Admittedly he was a 7yo at the time but this is no excuse.

One only has to compare Slow Rogue's NO wins out of fifteen starts record as a 7yo compared to WINX's eight Group race wins from eight starts as a 7yo if you are wanting a good chuckle at Glady's expense and ineptness.

Gladys this is so typical of your waffle regarding how great the past WFA stars were if compared to the modern era of WFA stars.

You have no idea as you are the proverbial racing NOVICE.

Of course Gaz, times means everything. Kingston Rule is the greatest two miler we have ever seen, Ike's Dream is the greatest miler that Randwick has ever seen and Final Card is the greatest 1200 metres horse that Flemington has ever seen.

How hard is it to get through your thick skull that times equate to tempo, not class. If there is no pressure, small field and a pacemaker, times will be fast.

Go back to having conversations with yourself through your alias and stop boring us all to death with your drivel.

Well done Gary,

You have managed to show Gladys up for the GOOSE that she is once again.

I know that using times alone is NOT an exact science due to the plethora of variables eg. state of track, surfacing or resurfacing. cut of grass, head wind, tail wind, the way the race is run ala tearaway leader etc, etc....

There is no doubt, the variables are almost endless.

But if we use times alone to compare these Cox Plate winners, pure mathematics will show that if you take WINX's best time away from either Northerly's or Sunline's best times the calculated margins behind WINX would be approximately 22 lengths for Northerly and approximately 21 lengths for Sunline.

The proverbial DAYLIGHT margin behind WINX for either of these past champs.

Think about it, that sounds about right to me, Northerly always seemed to have the wood on Sunline .

In any case yes you can dispute the method of comparison using times alone due to the massive amount of variables

BUT

even if we allow a massive 90% margin for error due to variables we still see both Northerly and Sunline being beaten by two lengths or more by WINX based on their respective best Cox Plate times.

Cox plate stats;

The only thing simple about this is yourself, Gaz. I couldn't be bothered detailing the races that need to be downgraded as the whole classification is broken. Firstly, handicaps should not be Group races. In handicaps, the best weighted horse usually wins, not the best horse. Group racing was only brought about so that the breeders could crowbar more money out of the purchasers. It gives an unwarranted value to horses based on dud races that they have either won or been placed in.

If you look back over the last 10-15 years our WFA racing has become weaker by the year. Our sprinters are comparable to most but our middle distance and staying distance horses are pretty hopeless. What has been allowed to develop is that hopeless horses have competed against other hopeless horses in these wrongly names Group races and as Khap pointed out numerous times, one of the duds has to win. Give this scenario occurs about seventy times during the year in Group One races alone, we then have this media stupidity that our races are strong because "we have many Group One horses competing in this race.". We don't. We have many dud horses that beat other dud horses in this race. This all rolls along until a Group Three horse like the winner of the Cox Plate or another Group Three horse like the winner of the Hollindale comes along and flogs these no hopers.

That poor trainer up in Brisbane likened the Hollindale field to a "Cox Plate" field. He was right. A field full of horses that had beaten duds in a race called a Group One but existing in name only. The trainer was also right as the field in this years Hollindale was better than the Cox Plates of 2016-18. 

Imagine if the connections of Sir Dragonet went back to the UK and declared him a Group One winner. He would be laughed out of Ascot.

Anyone who wants to win a middle distance WFA race in Australia only needs to bring a Group Three/Listed horse out here and it is yours. In the Winx years you would have needed a Group Two horse just to be certain.

Gladys,

You appear to have strong opinions in regard to questioning the quality of and excess number of WFA Group and Listed Stakes races scheduled on our Australian racing calendar.

I have asked you this before but did NOT receive a response.

Given that you feel that our WFA G1, G2, G3 and Listed races are in general of poor quality and way too many in number which races would you get rid of?

Lets make it simple for you Gladys.

Perhaps you could enlighten us all by coming up with a rescheduled racing calendar where you have deleted one of each of the following categories of WFA Stakes races from each State (if possible) G1, G2, G3 & Listed.

And if this proves far too challenging for you and you choose instead to YEILD to YOUR KING's CHALLENGE.

Then perhaps at a minimum I CHALLENGE you to answer the following questions at a bare minimum.

Do you think that the G2 WFA Hollindale Cup is one of the weakest G2 status races on our racing calendar?

And if so are you of the opinion that it should probably be reduced in status to say G3 or even regraded down even further down to Listed race status rather than it continuing to be run as G2 WFA race?

Gladys,

I'll give you an answer when you acknowledge the fact that you are a bumbling oaf.

Regards 

Geoffrey 

Gladys,

Re your:

"Tell me again how great our WFA horses are and how strong our Group races are Gaz."

I dare say that by this statement that you are implying that our WFA horses are NOT great and that our Group races are of a weak standard.

And in particular you are of the opinion that the Hollindale Stakes is in general one of the weakest of the G2 status races of our racing calendar.

Am I right?

Please confer if this is in fact supportive of your opinion.

Hey Gaz, where is Geoffrey? He was given two questions weeks ago and hasn't been seen since. He was not asked to solve Pierre de Fermat's Last Thereom, just to give us a few names.

I would ask you to help but you were stuck on them too.

I had a really good laugh during the week Gaz. One of the Edmonds in Brisbane likened the Hollindale to being of similar quality to the Cox Plate. He stated that it was comprised of our Group One stars and the best one he had seen.

The winner was Zaaki, a horse from the UK. Prior to yesterday he had won two Group Three races in the UK, both races comprising of field of six in total. Besides that tremendous record he had also won a listed race. In his form I noticed he had been flogged about 6 lengths by Benbatl, that horse only ever achieving Group Three status in the UK and a Group One in the desert whe he was punted from the UK.

Anyway, Zaaki comes out here and absolutely towels our similar quality Cox Plate field at the Gold Coast. Two of the horses in the field were horses that Winx used to flog.

Tell me again how great our WFA horses are and how strong our Group races are Gaz.

Hi Gladys,

Looks like you have with the help of your apprentice Khap eventually been able to untwist the restrictive knot of your big G!RL courage p@nz from around your ankles and that he has been able to rethread some new elastic into your pathetic CRU5TY old kn!ckers.

Glad to see you back Glad, you have yet again given your Jolly Old King a good belly laugh once again.

Gary & Gladys, although very relevant, forget about the comparisons to past champions as this generally turns into a lengthy no win debate for either party.

It is far better to focus on the pure mathematics and science provided by "horse expert", Dr Andrew McLean; as these scientific facts provided can NOT be denied

That is unless of course you are a flat earther like Gladys who coincidently is also a proven poor judge of horse flesh.

Gary, you made reference to some of Glady's idols eg. Manikato & Vo Rogue

These are prime examples of Glady's inability to recognise CHAMPION qualities in her revered racehorse idols.

Manikato was a supposed CHAMPION SPRINTER / MILER, the reality is that he was no good over 1200m unless this burly individual was beating up on all the other little kids as 2 and 3 year olds.

He never won a G1 open WFA race over 1200m.

Equally his description as a CHAMPION MILER is also a myth, he never won a G1 open WFA stakes race over 1600m.

In fact he only ever won two stakes races over a mile.

One was a G2 WFA race and the other was a set weights 3yo event where this burly individual was able to beat up on all the other little 3yos.

Hardly the record of a CHAMPION SPRINTER MILER is it?    (unless of course you are a dufus like Gladys)

The reality is that this supposed CHAMPION SPRINTER / MILER was not an accomplished G1 open WFA 1200m sprinter or a even an accomplished G1 open WFA 1600m miler.

The reality is that he was a one trick pony who only ever excelled over his pet distance of 1400m and even then he only ever where won 5/G1s at WFA .

And as for Slow Rogue another of Glady's idols.

Enough has been said already about this pancake champ that was beaten by so many very ordinary horses and further to this he could not win if ever there were more than half a dozen drops of rain on the course. (pathetic)

Gladys and all the other nongs will still put him up on a pedestal as having been a great 2000m WFA (middle distance) horse but the reality is that he failed miserably in multiple Cox Plates, 

The facts of the matter are that 1800m was about as far as he was comfortable with.

Further to this Rubiton made him look like a hack each and every time they met over a middle distance.

So using this information as a basis Gary, clearly there is little point in reading about Gladys' opinions as to what makes a CHAMPION.

Its oh so very obvious that she has NO idea.

Excluding 3yo KT, Winx the jackrabbit would have tapdanced down the straight against any of your idols. 

That's still fabulous and I am glad it makes you happy Gaz. What makes a champion though Gaz is whom you beat to achieve that title. Perhaps you think a 3rd grade cricketer flaying the local pub bowling attack puts him on par with Bradman.

Winx could have tap danced down the straight and still beaten the duds she faced as would any half decent horse.

He made a direct comparison of the champs, not their opposition.

That's fabulous Gaz. He certainly wasn't interested in studying any of the no hopers that she beat or commenting on their stride or tempo. I imagine any half reasonable horse would have looked spectacular going past those total duds.

King, 

An article from "horse expert", Dr Andrew McLean;

“Winx is the most extraordinary racehorse of our time. It is not just because she keeps on winning and breaking all the records of straight wins, it is the way she wins.

All of the champions of the past have tended to lengthen their stride on the home straight and in doing so, their tempos (the speed of the stride) slow a little or a lot. For example, Black Caviar had a stride length of well over 8 m. On the home turn her tempo was around 145 bpm, yet when she cruised to the finish line, her tempo decreased to less than 130 bpm.

By comparison, Winx is a jackrabbit, her stride length is quite short (under 7m) but her tempo can increase to well over 160 bpm. That is truly an amazing biological feat for an animal as large as a horse. She must have an extraordinary neural firing ability.

No other champion racehorse, to my knowledge, has accelerated to that frenetic level. I have measured American Pharaoh, Secretariat and a few other American greats, as well as our own Kingston Town, Makybe Diva, Chautauqua and many others and they all tend to adopt the Black Caviar model of lengthening once they’ve rounded the home turn, although some do a bit of both – they lengthen but also increase tempo slightly. But none can match the outrageous tempo of Winx."

Souce: https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2018/08/what-makes-winx-great-andrew-mclean-discusses/

Don't worry about where's Wally, more importantly where's Gladys?

Probably locked in a dark room somewhere watching re runs of Vo Rogues wins still trying to work out where she went wrong.

Here's a clue Gladys, in case you still haven't been able to work it out as yet

They only show his wins on the highlight videos, whish of course tends to make him look like a super star,

Sorry to be the one to break the news to you Gladys but they tend to leave out all his miserable failures on these highlight videos.

Hey Gary,

Notice how quiet Gladys becomes after she has had her p@nz well and truly pulled down yet again.

She has obviously spent the last week or so trying to work out how to pull her p@nz back up again.

Or is it that she has finally realised what a mug she is and that she has been wrong about WINX all along.

And where is her little apprentice Khaptingly, he also has gone very quite.

I'm tipping that he has spent the last week or so struggling to mend the elastic in Gladys' p@nz  and then feebly attempting to help her pull them up again, with her struggling against him and saying "no Khap I have has enough I can't go on anymore, the KNG has out witted me once again"

No, no more Khap, I have had enough of the constant embarrassment with the KING always being right and continually proving me wrong and laughing at me time and time again.

It was bad enough before but I really can't now find the strength go on as my courage p@nz are now firmly tangled around my ankles and I can't do a ting about it.

Damn that KING he has made me look like a mug way too many times, I give up, I bow to his superior knowledge in anything to do with racing or breeding of thoroughbreds.

Gary,

Or perhaps, maybe, on many of the days that Vo Rogue ran early in his career, he simply had an off day? 

(lots of off days in fact particularly on the lowly Qld provincial circuit) 

According to Gladys, this is exactly what happened to many of her idols if and when they got beaten.

Oh is it any wonder that so and so got beaten? 

He or she simply had an off day.  ala Northerly & Freemason in Gladys' opinion but I say Freemason beat him fair and square and was simply "the best horse on the day"

Some very good points raised by you Gazza, love your work.

Why wouldn't I as its oh so similar to mine that its almost scary, ha, haa, haaaaaa!

We are all laughing at you Gladbag.

What a dunderhead.

Cheers from your jolly old KING Glad.

Thanks for the constant supply of belly laughs, please do NOT ever change.

We are so fortunate to have you Glad.

You are a real treasure, there is no denying this fact.

You are the gift of MIRTH that just keeps on giving.

King,

Maybe, many of the horses that beat Vo Rogue early in his career, would have retired or lost form?  According to Gladys, this is exactly what happened to Winx and why she became a champion! 

Gladys has often criticised WINX for being a slow starter, in that is she took some time to mature into the wonder horse that she became. 

But lets look at the FACTS and compare her with one of your idols namely Vo Rogue who also took time to develop into the very good horse that he eventually became.

WINX

1. Broke her maiden as a 2yo at her first start.

2. She had 2 starts as a 2yo all on Sydney tracks for 2 wins = 100%

3. As a 3yo she had 9 starts on Sydney tracks and 1 on a provincial track for 4 wins = 40%  

4. NOTE the one start as 3yo on a provincial track resulted in a win in the Gosford Guineas

5. She had 12 starts in total as a 2 & 3yo for 6 wins = 50%

VO ROGUE

1. Broke his maiden as a 2yo at his fifth start.

2. He had 5 starts as a 2yo for only the one win, = 20%

(Note that 3 out of these 5 starts a a 2yo were on Qld provincial tracks) 

3. As a 3yo he had 17 starts for only 5 wins. = 29%

4. As a 3yo he only managed to win 2 out of his 8 starts on lowly Qld and NSW provincial tracks. = 25%

5. Of these 8 starts as a 3yo on Qld and NSW provincial tracks he only managed to win two lowly Gold Coast Improvers races.

5. He had 22 starts in total as a 2 & 3yo for 6 wins = 27 %        (Note many of these runs on Qld and NSW provincial tracks)

Gladys,

There is a stark difference between Gary's posts and mine. Give it up detective Gonzo. Even Khap won't come on board with you. 

Gladys,

WINX is on record as having beaten an INTERNATIONALLY proven G1 sprinter and a proven world renowned accepted INTERNATIONAL WFA superstar middle stayer.

Perhaps you could give us some examples of some of your idols eg. the one trick pony Manikato or the dud Vo Rogue (who couldn't win even one Cox Plate) coming anywhere near emulating these feats.

But of course you will as udual come back with your silly comments about how Vo Rogue only raced against good horses while WINX only raced against duds.

But before you do please consider this long list of the relative duds and lesser lights that beat a horse like Vo Rogue.

These are but a small sample of some of the horses that all beat Vo Rogue at least once.

Prince Calling,

Blazonry, Appealed, Sprit of Bengal, Charson, Allison Michelle, Myamin, Nazali, Ben Barnie, Tristram, Dandy Andy, Pilgrim's Gem etc......

There were others of course like Ring Joe who to his credit did in fact win one Stakes race but as you have speculated many, many times on here Gladys, perhaps all the other horses (including Vo) simply had an off day had an off day.

Gladys,

There is a stark difference between Theking's posts and mine. Give it up detective Gonzo. Even Khap won't come on board with you. 

Flap flap flap goes Gaz's big yap through his alias the theklown.

How about answering the questions posed Flapper!

Khaptingly,

Re your: "but what do you have to say about the comments from William Haggas?"

Look out Khap it appears that the GOOSE syndrome in your case may be catching.

I have already said plenty in regards to the comments of Mr. Haggas.

Please try and keep up in future.

And now for the slow ones (that includes you Khap) I will reiterate the Mr. Haggas related comments that I previously posted to Gladys:

(note some typos have been slightly adjusted)

"You also said: "I see William Haggas didn't think much of VE chances in an Arc."

To this I say opinions are like @holes everybody has got one.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what this pommie git has to say.

If he was or is now so smart in hindsight where was he with his good horses when WINX was being allowed to waltz around our tracks week after week, month after month & year after year accumulating the highest prizemoney of any racehorse in the entire world at the time (approx. $26.3m)

I'll tell ya where, racing back home for comparably peanuts either too scared of taking on WINX or too dumb to realise the bounty of prizemoney on offer in Aus.

Take your pick. either answer will show this bloke up to be the fool that he is and you as an even bigger fool for taking any notice of his completely unfounded @hole opinions.

Whos to say, given the right track conditions VE could not win an Arc & this nonsense about a 20-1 shot not having any hope is also nonsense.

I have not checked the stats but I am reasonably sure that in the long history of the Arc and taking into account the variable track conditions present, I dare say that there is every likely hood that it has been won by a 20=1 shot or even a longer price at some stage.

Re your: "Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" 

He would probably answer you with something like the following:

What sort of a racing novice git are you?

Not much to consider in this answer ya pillock, the form was more than franked by Highland Reel in an Arc."

Followed by the "HILARITY" of laughter from Mr. Haggas at your expense."

Careful Khap, all this time that you are spending portraying yourself as Gladys the GOOSE'S apprentice is turning you into almost as big a goose as she is.

theking you are quick to comment on and criticise the post by Gladys, but what do you have to say about the comments from William Haggas? Or was Gladys just used as a distraction to gloss over some hard facts that you did not like that came from one of the best trainers in the world. 

Gladys the GOOSE looks like your King unlike you is right again as usual.

I did not have to delve too far into the Arc records to find a "STINGING" example of a 20-1 winner.

"Despite Danedream winning two Group 1 races easily, she was still sent off at 20/1. Even so, Danedream went on to win the race by five lengths and the way she accelerated to put the race to bed in a matter of strides was something out of the ordinary. Not only did Danedream win the race easily, but she smashed the course record time at 2:24.49, which was set back in 1997."

What a great win by Danedream, as she "produced a result the market did not anticipate."

She won by 5 lengths when smashing the course record.

Clearly a result result that the market did not anticipate.

(How long is it since you have seen a bookie driving a rusty old Volvo?)

But of course Gladys the GOOSE will say she beat nuthin and all of the other horses in the field must have simply had an off day.

GOOSE, GOOSE, GOOSE!

Why is it that you can never get anything right?

Answer = You are a have a nitwit racing novice brain!

I reiterate:

SECRETARIAT could be reincarnated and win the Newmarket Hcp, Lightning stakes, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup & QE Stakes by thirty lengths in each and every race next season  and both Gladys and Khaptingly  would still say, "Yeah so what he only beat a bunch of donkeys, what did he beat?"

Or perhaps they would say "The only reason that he was able to beat all of those other horses in G1s by thirty lengths was that the rest of the horses were all having an of day."

Or perhaps they would drag out the old chestnut that Ausie G1s are a dime a dozen their quality can not be substantiatede.

Sorry Dopey the pair of you are both wrong on this count as the form has been franked by the Oz sprinters going of there and knocking off their best.

And now the we have had an Ascot G1 winner winning some of our G1s but only being extremely competitive in others.

Further to this, there is no dispute by the European, UK, Hong Kong & USA racing that Highland Reel, has also more than franked the QUALITY of G1 races.

GOOSE, GOOSE, GOOSE!

Those three would be longshots Gaz. They produced a result the market did not anticipate. Horses can have an off day.

The difference is however, Winx raced nothing but low calibre duds her whole career whilst the horses those three managed to overcome raced against good quality. Winx could have had three legs and still beaten those no hopers she raced as they were so crook.

Gladys,

You have proved yourself to be a GOOSE once again.

Why is it that you can never get anything right?

Answer = You are a have a nitwit racing novice brain!

You said:  "Criterion that won 6 races out of 36"

Derrrr, Criterion actually won 7 races out of 36.

Looks like you need to either get back to your remedial maths class or at least have one of the smarter kids help you with your counting.

Please note that 35 of Criterion's race starts out of his total of 36 career starts were run in Black Type events.

His career stats are 7 wins, 7 seconds & 7 thirds almost entirely in Black Type events.

Re your: "he won his first one in the UK as a 7 year old last October."

What is your point here NOVICE, apparently you are not aware that some horses take longer to mature or in fact like good red wine may mature and get better with age.

WINX is a case in point or even old Reckless who did not win any of his multiple Cups until he coincidently was also a 7yo.

You also said: "I see William Haggas didn't think much of VE chances in an Arc."

To this I say opinions are like @holes everybody has got one.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what this pommie git has to say.

If he was or is now so smart in hindsight where was he with his good horses when WIN was being allowed to waltz around our tracks week after week, month after month & year after year accumulating the highest prizemoney of any racehorse in the entire world at the time (approx. $26.3m)

I'll tell ya where racing back home for comparably peanuts either too scared of taking on WINX or too dumb to realise the bounty of prizemoney on offer in Aus.

Take your pick. either answer will show this bloke up to be the fool that he is and you as an even bigger fool for taking any notice of his completely unfounded @hole opinions.

Whos to say, given the rig track conditions VE could not win an Arc & this nonsense about a 20-1 shot not having any hope is nonsense.

I have not checked the stats but I am reasonably sure that in the long history of the Arc and taking into account the variable track conditions present, I dare say that there is every likely hood that it has been won by a 20=1 shot or even a longer price at some stage.

Re your: "Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" 

He would probably answer you with something like the following:

What sort of a racing novice git are you?

Not much to consider in this answer ya pillock, the form was more than franked by Highland Reel in an Arc."

Followed by the "HILARITY" of laughter from Mr. Haggas at your expense.

Freemason, Dandy Andy and El Mirada were hacks - and we all know who they beat. What price would those three be in the Arc?

Gaz 

Yes Gaz, it looks like he won his first one in the UK as a 7 year old last October. I guess that is the type of form that excites you given you were raving about Criterion that won 6 races out of 36 when you were blathering on about the horses that Winx beat.

I see William Haggas didn't think much of VE chances in an Arc. As Khap stated although he was very polite and respectful he thought she would be about a 20/1 shot, which was being kind.

Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" followed up with "what did you think of the horses that Winx used to beat"

How is Geoffrey going with those two questions that we posed Gaz? 

Gladys,

You really are a racing NOVICE peanut!

Re your:

"Oh dear. Another horse that couldn't win a Group One back home comes out and goes back to back in a 4million dollar race"

that couldn't win a Group One back home?????

ADDEYBB won the Ascot G1 CHAMPION STAKES "back home"

What a GOOSE you have shown yourself to be once again!

William Haggas claims that Verry Elleegant would find it tough when discussing her chances in the Arc. He was being polite and respectful too. Truth is, the best in Aussie are a world away from the best in Europe, UK and Japan.You know those Aussie ones, the sort of horses that Winx beat.  Wonder where Rex is, but we don't miss his claptrap and twaddle in trying to talk up the Aussie contingent.  

Looks like the exhumation of Geoffrey met the same fate as other corpses of the forum when asked the age old question.

I imagine he has returned to his cerebral crypt in a happier state than remaining above ground trying to answer Khap and my question.

Leopenaws

Maths-  9/10 winners come from first 5 in betting.   Percentage of those 5 is > 100% - so how do u make a profit, even if u manage to get the % under 100, u still lose 1/10 = cannot win long term

Oh dear. Another horse that couldn't win a Group One back home comes out and goes back to back in a 4million dollar race that could only attract two locals.

I reckon the overseas trainers must look on us as an equine Centrelink centre for their second raters who can't make it back home.

My betting partner made me aware today of a new betting system posted on a new YouTube channel called The Horse Whisperer. The system is called 9 FROM 10 and based on the presumption that 9 out of 10 winners come from top 5 favourites. The video is quite cool, but is the system workable? It seems quite interesting.

Good luck getting any worthwhile reply from that clown Khap.  All you will get is Gary using an alias to bore us to death with another equine history story about some horse beating another horse that went past another horse on the road in a float that proves that another horse was a champion. When it comes down to getting a name all you will get is Highland Reel, a three year old on his way to Hong Kong to race whilst their champion hid in Australia to race stable mates, no hopers and any other dud they could find in pretend WFA races.

Have a look at that QE race today. Four million dollars and provision for a field of 14 with 4 emergencies and they get 2 locals.

Geoffrey what did Winx beat? You tell us. Your other mates can't get past one horse. They need your help. Prove yourself. 

Instead of dribbling over the dud Queen Elizabeth field, the $4m race with just two Aussie horses able to make it, find us the names of the best horses that Winx beat. 

Or perhaps you can tell us the names of some Aussie horses that didn't make the Queen Elizabeth field, but in your opinion could be competitive. Only two have made it, so that should not be too hard for you. 

Of course the good ones don't come out here to race local handicappers in pretend WFA races Gaz. They just send out a few Group 3 plodders and they do the job. These connections race for prestige, no money for beating no hopers.

Ah Geoffrey. Can you do what Gaz can't and tell us the names of the good horses Winx beat. If not, who were the good ones that were hiding that they have never been able to find?

Good luck with that task

Well said Geoffrey!

Gladys & Khaptingly, mix em together and what do you get?

One massive pudding head, but please oh please spare the brandy in the mix we don't want them getting any sillier do we?

Oh what the hell throw in at least a cup full of brandy it may do both me and them some good to get even sillier than the silly, silly ducks that they presently are or should I say in Gladys' case silly, silly Goose.

Yeah perhaps a little more silliness from this pair of tonks is what I need from them right now as I have been used to relying on checking in for my constant source of belly laughs from them.

But unfortunately I have gravitated to feeling a degree of empathy and sadness for them in regard to their inability to recognise the greatness in so many very, very great horses.

They are missing out on oh so much enjoyment continually wanting to portray themselves as the epitome of a pair of Debbie downers.

Seriously SECRETARIAT could be reincarnated and win the Newmarket Hcp, Lightning stakes, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup & QE Stakes by thirty lengths in each and every race next season  and they would still say, yeah so what he only beat a bunch of donkeys, what did he beat?

I am sure that many, many people out there will share my empathy and sadness for this pair of deluded pudding headed F00L5.

It would appear that due to their ever so 5AD D3PPR3553D state of mind are continuing to miss out on the enjoyment and absolute glee of seeing GREAT horses race here in Australia that the mainstream racing public enjoys week after week.

Gladys & Khaptingly I suggest that you and your mate Debbie Downer forget about horse racing in the future and take up basket weaving as this may give you more pleasure.

You pair are a bunch of SAD, SAD uneducated horse racing novices who don't actually know how to enjoy your selves.

Gladys, Khrapper,

Why can't you accept that your arguments are those of bumbling clueless oafs? 

What did Winx beat? You two air-punching bumbaclarts.

Regards

Geoffrey

Khaptingly,

Re your:

"The $4m Queen Elizabeth , what a joke, what a disgrace, a race put on for imports and far from the best in the world at that."

Where were "these imports and far from the best in the world at that" when WINX was destroying them for three years in succession in the QE2 Stakes?

Answer = Hiding in COWARD'S CASTLE too scared to take on the best in the world.

The fact that she was allowed to accumulate the highest prizemoney of any horse in the world at that time is proof that they were running scared.

I see that they do not currently have any concerns about coming to load up on our bountiful high prizemoney.

What has changed?

Answer they now figure that they have a chance of winning these whereas when WINX was racing they knew that they had no hope of beating the best 2000m WFA horse in the world.

(They were NOT dills, they had diligently done their homework.)

The $4m Queen Elizabeth , what a joke, what a disgrace, a race put on for imports and far from the best in the world at that. Where are all those Aussie goats, a race in their own country for $4m you I'd!iot's.

The Queen will be off to a funeral on Saturday, I reckon there should be another one to mark the running of this debacle.

Gladys re your:

"No Gaz, our horses that contested the Japan Cup were good,"

Yeah they were all so good in FACT that al of them with the exception of the exceptional Better Loosen Up could not even win one  a Cox Plate between them let alone a Japan Cup.

1. Better Loosen Up won the Cox Plate and Japan Cup

2. Shaftesbury Avenue finished 12th of 14 in the Cox Plate prior to finishing 2 len. 3rd in the Japan Cup.

3. Naturilsm crashed in the Cox Plate but redeemed himself by finishing a credible head 2nd in the Japan Cup.

4. Lets Elope finished 5th in the Cox Plate followed by a 7th in the Japan Cup.

I reiterate the point that none of these horses with the exception of Better Loosen Up could win even one Cox Plate between them however WINX won four Cox Plates and three QE 2 Stakes placing her firmly in the company of Kingston Town only three Cox Plate wins and TULLOCH who also had three QE2 Stakes wins.

Oh and need I mention that Sir Dragonet also won a Cox Plate!

In 2020, England's William Haggas brought out two horses and they both won with Addeybb winning both the G1 Ranvet and G1 Queen Elizabeth. It was a very satisfying race as the UK beat home Australian, Japanese and New Zealand runners in the first six.

Has been a race where fairytale endings have not always been realised. Gunsynd lost his farewell race, Intergaze held off Octagonal in his last race and Grand Armee did the same to Lonhro.

However in 2019, the greatest of them all Winx ended her career with 33 straight wins including her "third QEII Stakes" in front of "43,000 adoring fans."

Multiple winners of the race as the Queen Elizabeth are Tulloch (1958, 1960, 1961), Intergaze (1997, 1999), Grand Armee (2004, 2005) and Winx (2017/2018/2019).

Other notable winners include Gay Icarus (1971), Tails (1972), Ming Dynasty (1978), Rising Prince (1985), Tristarc (1986), Our Poetic Prince (1989), Sydeston (1990), Rough Habit (1992), Veandercross (1993), Jeune (1995), Doriemus (1996), Might And Power (1998), Shogun Lodge (2001), Lonhro (2003), More Joyous (2012), Dundeel (2014) and Addeybb (2020).

No Gaz, our horses that contested the Japan Cup were good, not no hopers like we saw in the Tancred or the stable mates Winx beat.

Now tell us Gaz, who were the good WFA horses in this year's Tancred and which good WFA horses had they beaten.

This should be priceless. Get ready to laugh your guts out Khap.

Gladys,

Re your:

"Name any of those plodders in that pathetic Tancred that would have started any better than 100/1 in an Arc or a Japan Cup Gaz?"

You are showing yourself up as a racing novice yet again boofhead.

I am reasonable sure that none of our past Cox Plate runners who went on to compete in their respective Japan Cup attempts ever started at 100-1 or more.

Reason.

Probably because the bookmakers are aware that past Cox Plate winners or well performed CP competitors have mostly gone on and performed well in their respective Japan Cup attempts.

Had Sir Dragonet followed this path after blitzing the 2021 Cox Plate field there is no way that he would have started 100-1 or more.

Re your:

Running a place against other donkeys means nothing Gaz. Who have any of them beaten.

What is the point of addressing this one Gladys?

Even if they had beaten Enable you would simply say (like BC & Winx) yeah but Enable beat nothing but a bunch of donkeys.

Name any of those plodders in that pathetic Tancred that would have started any better than 100/1 in an Arc or a Japan Cup Gaz?

Running a place against other donkeys means nothing Gaz. Who have any of them beaten.

Gladys,

Re your: "In that woeful Tancred yesterday, less than half the field had won at wfa, whilst half the field had no won at Group One level,"

You are such a racing novice Gladys, here let me explain it to you.

Horses which are suited to and contest mile and a half races (2400m) are called stayers.

My question to you dopey is how do you expect horses having a propensity to display their talents well in G1 WFA staying races at 2200m plus if there are not actually any G1 WFA staying races on the Australian racing calendar greater than 2200m other than the Tancred which is of course a G1 2400m WFA race.

The only other G1 WFA race that we used to have at 2200m or greater was the 2200m WFA Doomben Cup but it is now generally run as a 2000m event and has been so for many years now.

So hopefully even a racing novice such as yourself can now realise just how dumb your comment was in relation to Australian STAYING  TYPE HORSES competing in the one and only WFA staying event programmed on the Australian racing calendar..

Your comment:  "less than half the field had won at wfa, whilst half the field had no won at Group One level,"  Derrrrrrrrrr, I wonder why dopey?

Further to this I also take exception to your futile attempts to denigrate the quality of the recent Tancred field.

Only a real totally unknowing racing novice like yourself would make an attempt such as this.

I reiterate the point that it is much harder for STAYERS to get runs on the board in WFA and or G1 races due to the unavailability of such suitable races on the racing calendar.

However as you will see from the following stats and when taking all this into account most would have to agree that it was as good a field as could be expected given the lack of G1 WFA STAYING races available on the Australian racing calendar.

However based on your silly comments I am almost certain that you were probably scratching your head and wondering why the really fast horses that won the Lightning Stakes and William Reid Stakes were not in the field.

After all to your way of thinking (i.e.NO knowledge of STAYERS) they could simply jump out of the barrier really quickly run along in front really fast and the old plodders would not be able to catch them because they are really, really fast horses.

Based on current information the following stats are indicative of the quality of the Tancred field. (all figures approx.)

1. 62% have won at either WFA or G1

2. 93% Stakes Winners

3. 79% multiple Stakes Winners

4. 100% Stakes Placed

5. 100% multiple Stakes Placed

6. 50% G1 Winners 

7. 86% G1 Placed

It was Melodey Belle's first run over 2400m.

Old McDonald did not do her any favours with that 5H!T ride, 18 len last at the 1200m,14 len last at the 1000m, then makes a move 14 wide around the turn to end up 6 len off the lead at the 300m but did make up approx. 2 len from the 300m to the winning post.

What was he thinking?

I'm pretty sure that he must have thought that he was riding Verry Elleegant rather than Melody Belle.

In any case I very doubt that even .Verry Elleegant could have won this same race with the same 5H!T McDonald ride, 14 wde around the turn???

Further to this I also very much doubt that even Sunline could have won this same race with this same 5H!T ride if she was having her first and only try at 2400m.

How much more ground would Melody Belle have travelled in the race compared to the winner?

As for Melody Belle's record in Sydney it is 5H!T, just like Vo Rogue Sydney record as a comparison I'd say.

As they say horses for courses!

Tell us about Melody Belle's form over 2400 and her wins in Sydney Gaz.

Name the good WFA horses in the Tancred Gaz.

Gladys,

You are showing us your racing knowledge slip again.

1. Prior to coming to Aus Sir Dragonet ran 2nd at WFA in the G1 Curragh Gold Cup to MAGICAL who had previously won 5/G1s but now including the G1 Gold Cup has a won a total of 7/G1s. (MAGICAL is a world class mare) Due to the WFA scale Sir Dragonet carried 3lb, approx. 1.5 kg more than this great mare.

2. When Sir Dragonet arrived in Aus he had new trainers.

3. Following this Sir Dragonet flogged them in the G1 Cox Plate.

4. When Sir Dragonet finished 4th in the Ranvet (beaten 2.3 len.) he was beaten by two world class gallopers in Verry Ellegant 8/G1s & Addeybb 3/G1s including the Ascot G1 Champion Stakes.

5. Sir Dragonet then flogs the supposed woeful Tancred field which includes Melody Belle, the winner of 14/G1s.

Gladys, re your:

"no one in Australia was declaring them the best in the World"

In the 1957 Caulfield Cup, Tulloch thrashed all the older horses in the then fastest time for 2400m on turf in the world.

Sorry dumbo, but the hype was such at the time that plenty of people including the press were declaring that Tulloch was the best turf horse in the world.

Those horses did not need to go anywhere Gaz. They raced against good opposition and no one in Australia was declaring them the best in the World or the greatest horse in the history of Australian racing. 

Just have a look at that appalling Tancred Stakes yesterday. The winner was a Group three horse in the UK. He had about four starts at wfa in the UK and no wins. He comes out to Australia and cleans up the goats in the Cox Plate. He follows this up with another three losses at wfa and then cleans them up in the Tancred. In that woeful Tancred yesterday, less than half the field had won at wfa, whilst half the field had no won at Group One level, not that winning Group Ones in Australia means anything these days as we have about 70 of them. These goats were racing for 1.5 million yesterday, 

I think the Christmas Cup or the Manion would produce better fields than the camels that went around yesterday. 

Khaptingly,

Re your: "Sure Aus horses will win G1's, mainly they are simply knocking off worse Aus horses."

Oh now I see the light (and its taken a nitwit like you to show me) horses such as Tulloch & Kingston Town were not actually great horses at all as they were simply beating up on the worse Aus and NZ horses running around at the time.

Yes I see your point now Tulloch would have had to go over and beat Ballymoss if he were to be genuinely recognised as a great horse.

Some of Ballymoss' wins included:

Similarly to your way of thinking Kingston Town would have had to go over an beat Spectacular Bid to be genuinely recognised as a great horse.

Some of Spectacular Bid's wins included: