It would appear we have reached agreement.
Has that ever happened before on this forum?

On reflection greyshot, I think I may have been wrong and that you are unquestionably correct on this matter.

What was I thinking?

Point well made.

ROFLMAO

Kid
I think you will find that eventually everybody (on this topic) will agree with me.

Love your work Greyshot. Talk about a bully pulpit. FWIW I agree with you.... and I'm not just saying that.

Stop all this talk about Darwin. Melbourne is the problem.
It already has the Roos and Bulldogs who can't fill a stadium we don't need a Tassie or NT team that also would struggle to fill a 15,000 capacity stadium every week.

As I said Tiger I don't think an AFL club would survive up in Darwin or North Queensland. You need sponsorship and you need more than 10,000 to 20,000 to turn up to watch each game. I'll bet the games in Cairns & Darwin lost money.

I would say that the Cowboys do so well in North Queensland is because rugby is the number one winter sport in Queensland. Aussie rules doesn't do that well up there.

The Green bay Packers are a community owned franchise owned by the people.

The AFL has tried private ownership before and it hasn't worked once so far.

I never actually said anything about putting a team in Nth Aust, you can see that from my initial comments.

What I did say was the likelihood was very slim because of the negativity regarding the weather variances thats come from various people, such as Sheahan. And what I've said here is that its a poor excuse to lay the blame on the weather conditions as to the main reasoning to not push for a Nth Australian team.

Relic, the Cowboys are in a city with a population of just on 200,000 and they regularly fill their stadium to capacity or near enough to it most home games. And it has nothing to do with a fanatical RL base, it has everything to do with having their own team to support.

You put say the Roosters v Raiders and have them play in Townsville and tell the Cowboys members who've paid for their season ticket that they too have to pay to get in. How many people do you seriously think they get?.....I'll tell you, they'd be flat out getting 10,000.

The fact that Richmond and the Suns got around 12,000 people to a match in Cairns is a credit to those who supported the event. Also note, Cazaly's Stadium was sold out this year so the ground doesn't have the capacity to hold anymore. And the population of Cairns is around 150,000.

I'd wager that with a 25,000 seat stadium and their own team to support, they'd fill their ground at almost ever hoke game just as it is in Townsville with the Cowboys. And it'd be the same in Darwin.

Something of interest for you. The Green Bay Packers have a stadium that holds more than 70,000 people and is sold out at every home game. So much so that there's a huge waiting list for membership with the club.

The population of the city of Green Bay is just over 100,000 people.

Tiger I think you could relocate a side up North. It would be huge home ground advantage. But I don't think that you would get a club to relocate, as they wouldn't survive very long. The population base is just to small to survive with sponsorship, members and cash flow. When sides do go up to Darwin & Cairns the crowds are small no one really shows up to watch. I can't see it changing with a side based up in either town. There are far to many things competing with the AFL.

A side is better off relocating to Tassie where the main sporting code in winter is aussie rules

"unless you are saying that the weather is what is stopping the AFL from moving to Darwin and not the financial side of things."



Zed, thats exactly what I was saying. There are too many opponents to locating or starting a team in either Nth Qld or NT because people like Mike Sheahan have whinged that the weather variance is too great.

I understand what you are saying regarding the Patriots, my point was more about them coming from near freezing temp climate at home to play the Dolphins in temps similar to that of Darwin in Winter/Dry season. And they still managed to handle a greater climate variance than any of the Victorian teams would have to deal with going to Darwin in July.

Is that it Relic, because they run a bit more and the games go maybe a half hour at most longer than the NRL is reason enough to can the Northern Australia idea?

Lol, that'll do me.

Tiger the AFL play on bigger grounds for a start. Yes each quarter is 20 minute then time on. So let's say maybe each quarter could go 25 to 30 minutes? Just for us say 25 minutes? AFl is a longer game that NRL and NFL. Both the rugby and gridiron are stop start games. So the players can recover faster. The AFL game goes longer and the players run further for longer than both the NRL & NFL.

"Tiger NRL and NFL are both very different games to AFL. Those two codes don't run as far or for as long."




So Relic, because its the AFL it means they can't play a match in a certain area because its too hot? But these two other codes can......spare me, I'll get out my mini violin and play a sad tune just for the AFL.

The NFL players wear fully pad suits with helmets, do you think thats comfy for a player coming from an area of single figure temps to playing in an area similar to Townsville weather wise? Of course not, but they don't whinge about it.

And the NRL matches play for 80 minutes where the only time the clock is not stopped with the ball out of play is when they are kicking a penalty or conversion. The AFL is 20 minute quarters with time on for stoppages.

How much longer do you think the AFL players actually have the ball in play for than the NRL, 10-15 minutes?

The AFL could easily play night games in Nth Aust just as the Cowboys do in Townsville. They erred with the matches in Cairns by having them during the day and at twilight instead of 8.00pm at night.

If you want a true national comp then you have to suck it up and play it everywhere, rain hail or humidity

Tiger NRL and NFL are both very different games to AFL. Those two codes don't run as far or for as long.

Relic,

The Melbourne Storm or the Canberra Raiders NRL officals don't whinge about the heat in Townsville when they play up there.

This season the Storm gave the Cowboys a pasting in Townsville. So the heat obviously didnt have much of a bearing on that match, did it.

And the heat in Perth is different to Nth Aust, but its still the same principal. A Melbourne club could leave for Perth after having played on a cold Saturday night when the temp gets to only 6 or 7C. Then the following week it could well be a Sunday afternoon with the temp in the mid to high 20's.

AFL players already have to contend with cold and wet days as well as hot and dry days. I'm sure they'll cope with an evening match with higher than they're used to humidity.

The NRL players do and they don't sulk about. And nor do any other media scribes who report on the NRL.

And nor do those who play in the NFL when they have to travel from the cold to warmer areas like Florida. Last season the Patriots traveled to Miami. They went from temps at home of day time 7c in December to play in humid warm temp of mid to high 20's. This is similar to going from a very cold Melbourne day to play in Cairns during the evening.

The Patriots last season beat the Dolphins in Miami. The dramatic change in temp didnt affect them either.

Sooks like Mike want a national comp, but only for half the country and the weather changes are a cop out.

Tiger the heat up North in Darwin & Cairns is completely different to Perth, Adelaide, Sydney,Melbourne. You living up that would know that better than anyone. I played footy up in Darwin and we'd drink 2 to 3 litre of water before playing a game. You'd sweat it all out no problem and lose weight. I'm with Mike on the conditions up North

The only clubs all but assured they won't ever have to relocate or merge are the big four:
Collingwood
Carlton
Essendon
Richmond.

It doesnt matter if one of these clubs are not having a big year, the league knows that when they are on song anyone of those above will always fill a stadium and attract huge television numbers. And thats what its all about....numbers.

St Kilda can play off in ten GF's in a row, it still won't help their overall crowd numbers because once they fall away so do their crowd and viewer numbers.

I do feel for North, the had the key to Friday nights. Its a shame they didnt sign a some sort of long term deal on all their home games being Friday nights over a long period of time. They were the catalysts for what we see now and thats big crowds and big name teams playing because of it.

If the AFL can give the same concessions to a club relocating to say Hobart as they do the Swans. Then a Melb/Haw/StK/Bull. team would be mad not to take up the offer.

The Darwin idea won't happen whilst you have sooks like Mike Sheahan whining about teams having to play in the heat in winter and constantly writing and whinging about it on tv. People like to use that hot weather as an excuse for poor form, yet no one whinges when its an excessively hot day in Perth in August.

Hawthorn and St Kilda merge and play out of Tassie as the Devils. Melbourne and Footscray merge and play out of NE Victoria/Sth NSW as the Murray Cods. And the Roos to move to Canberra and play as .....the Kangaroos.

Problem solved :))

Sorry Doos pro-Collingwood posts will not be tolerated.

I think that is a load of rot Greyshot about North. I think North well and truly deserve to be a stand alone club. They have played very good football since the 70's until now with a few low patches (and not many at that). What makes the Kanga's different from 85% of the other clubs is their Shineboner spirit and pride.

Melbourne (Who I follow)had been good under Neil Daniher and they had good management in there as well. They made finals and even played off in the 2000 GF. It was a slaughter but they made it. Now they have self destructed with bad draft picks, bad choices of coaches and very poor management. I fear the Dees could be one of the clubs to relocate, merge or disappear, if Paul Roos and new management can't save them.

Something has to give and clubs will have to move, merge or disappear. Time will only tell

WA can't support another team, nor can NSW. SA must keep its two teams. Tassie should - finally - get one. The rabble that is St Kilda can go to the NT or....somewhere.

The Dees could merge with the Dogs and about five people would notice.

North deserve to stay.

Essendon deserve to be booted from the comp but we all know that won't happen.

Collingwood will preside over all :)

My suggested mergers were not meant to be "take it or leave it." They were suggestions of clubs that could be moved on. Some people have defended one or two of the clubs I highlighted and thats fine but all of them have either problems or just a lifetime of under achieving.
Saints-one flag, none since 1966. Also they have a twenty year history of terrible administration bungles.Yeah they played in 3 grand finals in 2 years but then they let go the coach who got ém there?
Bulldogs - one flag in 1954. A history of financial woes. Can't fill their home ground, can't operate at a profit.
Melbourne - do I have to say anything?
North/Roos - do they deserve to survive? They had the best player in Australia for a decade and still they wouldn't get off their collective @rses and go to their games. Their supporter base prefer to go to Survival Rallies rather than AFL games.
Port- I explained earlier that they are on a hiding to nothing. Their situation is very different to Freo's. The Dockers had the support of the two Fremantle based WAFL clubs and many other people who live south of the Swan River from day 1. Since they got rid of Schwab their admin have not put a foot wrong.
American sport is littered with successful Franchises that have been moved to new cities.
The LA Dodgers no longer play "Subway"games against the Yankees but they are a massive sporting Franchise. The Ravens, The Timberwolves......it can work after a bit of initial pain.

I think the error the AFL made was helping out the struggling club in financial difficulty. Then and going and setting up two new franchises in the Gold Coast & GWS.

The AFL should of pushed two clubs about to go broke up north like they did to South Melbourne when they sent them to Sydney.

North Melbourne got offered a chance of a lifetime. They could have built on their supporter base and been given a prime time slot on TV. Then there was the incentives the AFL offered them. They'd be set for life.

I thought that Melbourne should have merged with Richmond and the Melbourne Tigers Basketball club. They'd be called the Melbourne Tigers and you'd have a super club. That's to late now as the Richmond has cash and the fans are back in droves. When the tigers fans come out that is great for Football :)

Greyshot it wasn't that long ago St Kilda was a strong side and played off in finals and grand finals. They played off in GF in 2009 & 2010 and the 2010 GF they drew play and had to play again the week later. The Saints supporter base is also quit strong.

North Melbourne has been a strong team for a very long time. If they haven't been in the finals they have been knocking on the door. The only issue they have is their supporter base. The Roos should of moved to the Gold Coast when they had the chance.

Melbourne hasn't been good for quite sometime on or off the field. The fan are very fickle. This year it looks so far the Dees might be on the right track. They have good people in the football department now and Paul Roos as coach. The next two years are very important

Footscray was very strong for quite sometime also but the has fallen off the pace in the last 3 to 5 years. That happens with footy clubs as they have to rebuild as good players get older on their lists. The supporter base is quite small. The Doggies seem to be on the right track as well

Hey Grey, I know nothin about AFL, but I disagree.

Now hit the Ghostbusters icon.

So would you say the sport is stronger and bigger for having out of state teams..?

I remember the game best when I was a kid and it just VFL...it seemed to have it's own strong identity, I suppose it's richer for the expansion of interstate teams, but is the game better or richer for it..?

Lost
My proposal reduces the number of clubs to 15.

I don't need to pray to be able to tell you that none of the Melbourne teams I mentioned (Footscray, Roos, Demons or Saints) played in the Grand Final or attracted big crowds or made money.
Nor have they recently. Nor do they look likely to in the near future.

I agree that there are to many clubs in Victoria for all to survive. I think the best way for the AFL to deal with matters is to stop bailing out the clubs that are bad at managing their money.

And who Pray Tell played in this Years 2013

Grand Final

In fact who WON IT


Who pray tell, seem to be the Up and coming teams for 2014/15

Wot teams have locked themselves into the Top 8 over the past 5 years

Thankfully now a Fair Draft, maybe the return of a Competitive AFL for all

Don't care about Victorian teams going bust for a while

Why do you need any? Joke of a game. No one else in the world cares. If a sport is any good then several countries are going to play it.

It's just force em backs with posts. Most kids give up past the age of 12.