Federal Election 2013

2013 July 09 18:17:30

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/premiers-pay-will-rival-obamas-20130709-2pnbq.html

Queensland waits with bated breath for your decision Campbell. All it takes is a parliamentary vote from your huge majority.

2013 July 08 21:41:32

Egg On Face >>> Betfair today . Rudd in from 5.8 to 4.3. Some Nervous Libs . out there. Almost All money is to back Labor . . Wow , I don't have to take aperients tonight.
Geelong , Will you lend me 500 till I get my memory back.

2013 July 09 10:39:11

Liked the comment on 'Insiders' on Sunday morning regarding Rudd being back as leader.

'You can put a shiny new lid on a rubbish bin, but it's still a rubbish bin'.

2013 July 09 11:36:49

Wasn't Rudd pushed out in 2010 because his popularity dropped from 60 to 30%?

Are we to believe that the same people who dragged his poll down are the same people who lifted it up again?

Are polls to be believed, particularly as they seem to be responsible for two leadership changes?

They don't make any sense, yet our country is dependant on them for the super-intelligent electorate to have any clue.

A country of the polls, by the polls, for the polls...

Hands N Heels

2013 July 09 13:33:25

"Are people really that upset with the Government that they will hand power to a person that is universally unpopular?"

I'm not so sure it matters, the popularity of the leader that is, unless you've been around too long and the electorate grows tired of you.

Geelong referred to post-election surveys to illustrate a point about Howard's wealth caching and the mention of such surveys reminded me of the one I read when it became available after the last election, as I was intrigued by how close the result was.

I've posted the link here and I encourage readers of this and the other political threads to spend 5 or 10 minutes on it. The results may surprise you, especially in light of the topics that have been bandied about here and their relative important in the minds of the electorate, namely budgets & economic mgt, asylum seekers boats, global warming, education & immigration.

If you don't have time or you can't be bothered, here are some highlights:

B5. Most Important in vote decision:
Less than 15% selected the party leaders while over 51% opted for policy decisions and 24.5%
for political parties in general as opposed to the leaders.

B13. Thought of changing vote during campaign:
5.3% (Libs) 5.8% (ALP) 1.3% (Nats) - all that money spent on campaigns eh?? (see also B1. Party Identification & B4. When decided which way to vote)

Section D1: Importance of issues (combining 'extremely important' and 'quite' important responses):

3 most important in voters' minds -
Health & Medicare (97.4%)
Economic Mgt (97.2%)
Education (93.2%)

3 least important in voters' minds -
Global Warming (72.6%)
Refugees & Asylum Seekers (75.6%)
MRRT (77.8%)

Section D2: Party closest to respondents' own view on these issues - well worth a read.

The sample size was just over 2214 (from 7016 offered), the spread of demographics was good as you would expect although slightly biased to an older set, probably because of availability and spare time to devote to these things.

What it does do however is give an insight into what the electorate at large thinks and perhaps how they think. As I say I found these results surprising in parts yet I wonder how much credence parties give to these surveys.

http://aes.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/Australian%20Election%20Study%20codebook%202010-1.pdf

2013 July 09 12:40:08

Very correct glencoe.

A super intelligent electorate indeed.

2013 July 09 11:34:37

Allan Jeans used to say a thing about footballers..

They are like sausages. You can fry them you can curry them you can boil them. In the end, they are still sausages.

Paul Hogan once said that dressing him up would be like putting a top hat on a cockroach.

There's a few out there. Most can be applied to politicians.

2013 July 09 09:28:40

The latest polls, whilst nothing to rely on for an election result, are certainly interesting.

Rudd holds a 22% lead over Abbott as preferred PM. Abbott has hit a low that not even the loathed and despised Gillard could hit.

Are people really that upset with the Government that they will hand power to a person that is universally unpopular?

Can Abbott continue to sit on his hands and maintain his do nothing remain negative agenda with his own popularity sinking so low?

The last thing we need is another hung parliament. Could the Coalition face gaining power via a hung parliament? That would be a disaster. Time for Abbott to ramp up a positive campaign and start divulging policy and planning in detail.

Weight Special

2013 July 09 22:04:05

"Rudd holds a 22% lead over Abbott as preferred PM"

Didnt Rudd hold a 30%+ lead over Gillard though?

Which makes your other comment null and void.

Abbott was ahead of Gillard on a personal level and Rudd is miles ahead of both. Not sure why because Rudd is more phony than either of them.

No one in the private sector is interested in hiring Rudd because all he offers is lots of spin and lots of travel.

While Gillard has a boring personality and poor vocals at least she had some substance about her.

LNP to win by 12-15.

2013 July 10 08:58:44

The American average wage is about 40,000 p.a compared to 80,000 for Australia. We make twice as much as them, so Obama is going o.k.

And what about his wage compared to the average negro?

Weight Special

2013 July 10 13:35:32

Gallen earns more than Obama.

2013 July 10 23:11:19

Webber probably earns more than our Countries Political wage bill.
I don't know what for.

2013 July 08 20:38:33

I haven't seen Bob Brown about for quite awhile. He was gaunt and symptomatic last time I did an amateur diagnosis.
Maybe he has "turned over " ?? & Joined the Liberal party.
My powers of observation only.??
Hope I'm WONG.

2013 July 05 22:00:30

Surprised to see the Kevin Rudd bounce is on the big turnaround already.
Whitlam repeat, expected to be a landslide and on Betfair it sure looks like I'm not on my own thinking that.
Labor have eased a full point today on a 101% market.... Maybe Julia is on the punt.

2013 July 06 15:17:24

Great work Mr Rudd. We weren't aware Indonesia was such a dynamic, thriving economy or we wouldn't be giving them so much foreign aid.
To now engineer a situation where Indonesia tells us what to do inside our borders is not really acceptable.
Kevin is already irritating his audience with a never ending flow of verbal diarrhoea.
He wants a debate. That's an admission he is doing all the talking thus far and from my observations, The Coalition is winning that hands down.
The longer he stalls an election the more seats he will lose.

2013 July 05 10:40:45

Thanks Count

I'll take it from your response that your answer is 'yes...you believe he had no idea'

Fair enough.

2013 July 05 08:12:27

Here here LC...the observations of a balanced biped. Back to punting banter for me. I think we all know where we stand.

2013 July 04 19:50:32

The Newman Government are obviously world beaters and should be rewarded appropriately.....get in on a mantra of low unemployment and integrity......take middle and leg then promptly sack 15000 direct employees, including doctors, nurses, teachers, even police...and another 10000 through closed service delivery grants programs.....Give their mates and their kids $100k+ jobs and close down all public scrutiny and accountability. Refuse 100s of millions in Fed Ed funding and still sing the hymn of inherited debt blame which any economist worth their salt can debunk in a heartbeat.....I recon they deserve more.

2013 July 04 19:31:12

Fair enough Count

You could still have a crack at answering the question I asked you.

Moley

2013 July 04 23:32:27

Moley,
The pay-rise issue was deemed illegal and a decision was made by acting Premier Jeff Seeney.
So, what's the problem?

If Seeney had gone running to a holidaying Campbell Newman for advice you'd probably highlight this as proof that Newman is some kind of dictator.

Now I don't know about you, but if I was on an overseas holiday with my family the last thing on my mind would be work and I certainly wouldn't welcome any work related intrusions into my time-off.
Especially when I've left authority with my deputy.

the urger

2013 July 04 11:29:48

With the politicians receiving a 42% pay increase it just goes to show how far removed they are from the people they're supposedly representing.
It's little wonder the scepticism a disdain people have for politicians when you see nurses,firefighters,teachers and the like fight tooth and nail for mere token pay rises and these people are handed an extra $57000 regardless of their performance.

imaj eel

2013 July 04 18:54:08

you are talking about state pollies tho, aren't Qld ones who are claiming back what labor took away from them?? Urger? you are aren't you,, and this on a federal election thread.

Sad stuff

2013 July 04 16:34:51

We are seeing that in Victoria now urger. Polis give them selves a lovely pay rise and super boost that had nothing to do with being legally bound. At the same time they have fought with the teachers and nurses for protracted periods, the Ambos have been at it for ages. Ambulance Victoria is in a disgraceful state going back through several governments yet nothing is done. Firies are just about to start the fight. Despite raking in many more millions through the fire levy the government have slashed budgets for the MFB and CFA and are about to bring in even more through the new rates based system. They currently have $157,000,000 sitting in the state coffers that residents paid as part of their fire levy yet it hasn't been forwarded to the fire services. $63,000,000 has been ripped from the budget instead. Big chance their one seat majority will be gone and Labor back in in Victoria late next year if it keeps up. Kennet made the same mistakes and his sheer arrogance cost him.

lostclarity

2013 July 04 16:09:24

glencoe,

I'm no student of politics, but I am interested in people: from working class gems to honest statesmen; from rat-cunning back lane operators to corporate criminals.

I prefer to work out people myself. I certainly would not rely on an electorate that would vote in a despicable chameleon like Tony Abbott or a jury that would acquit an O J Simpson. I don't have mediocrity determine outcomes in my life. I despise committees.

You're asking the wrong questions, mate. A lot of you guys put an astonishing amount of time and energy into a worthless vote.

A lot of you guys are influenced by media persuasion.

And much and all as history tells heaps of lies, I think two things will come out of the farce of a risen Abbott and a fallen Gillard.

She will fare much better than he will in retrospect.

I cannot rally a word to his defence. She on the other hand is a decent human being, and of course, there is a gulf between who she is and how the public see her. Have a beer with random guys off the street and see how you go.

She is intelligent, hard-working, a top analyst, affectionate, kind to her staff [like Paul Keating, compassionate to the little people], down-to-earth. She knew personal stuff about her staff and that heads her in the direction of a people-person. Other things like hiding her tears when her father died ~ despite welts under her eyes, won me. She was either well-liked or loved by people who know her.

If you got past the accent, she spoke very well.

I hope Australians rue what they did to her, and who better to make them than Mr Rabbit.

Aside from the personal things, Australians will find she governed a lot better than he's going to. Carve that in stone.

2013 July 03 15:37:01

Terrific Posts on both threads. Great stuff Count , Fatjak etc. . I don't have time to live in a dictionary to decipher the Julius Sumner Miller impersonator but somewhere in there might be a lucid moment.
I told him it takes him 3 hours to watch 60 minutes. [ he didn't see humour , took it serious ]
LostClarity : I was slow in true analysis of Mogodon but I must have been "Doing Time" when he evolved . Robert of R&S has me on 99 years parole so , In respect for his judgement plus [ self survival ] , I will not make that analysis Public.
Go for it , The humour of it all is real entertaining. I'm trying to stay alive till an erection [ there I go again , bet Geelong thinks my spelling is bad too ]

2013 July 03 20:49:20

It's heartwarming that although you may have learnt little from these threads Macca at least you've found your intellectual soul-mate, as fickle as we know he can be. Enjoy the tryst, I mean trip, while it lasts.

2013 July 03 12:06:24

Very interesting bit of background Moleboy.

2013 July 03 09:18:30

Lister,

Just with regard to your comment on his political experience.

The Brisbane City Council is the second or third largest municipality on the planet. If local governments ran emergency services departments like they do in the United States it would be the biggest in the world...by a long long way. It has an operating budget of more than $3 billion per annum.

It's no fish and chip shop.

That said, he left that Council in an enormous hole of debt, spending jaw-dropping amounts of money on projects that haven't worked...and he walked away from his post in the middle of the night without telling anyone.

The Council is still sacking staff to this day to claw their way back. No-one there has any respect for his legacy....none.

I actually find that much more baffling than electing someone with no experience at all.

lostclarity

2013 July 03 11:10:17

So, now it’s back to Kevin Rudderless, and the polls are soaring. 35% believe he’s changed. Are you one who votes in this circus? And you make a difference? Let me whisper, up close now: [Your vote has never made a difference. Not once.]

He’s back replacing Gillard who took over from him. Abbott was beating Gillard, now Rudd is flailing Abbott who pipped Turnbull, because, well, that’s what voting does. Who they immutably are alters on a three-day cycle.

‘I won’t run against Gillard. Not interested.’ Thank you, Kevin. You’re not as bad as Abbott, no one is, but Gillard streets you. Welcome to the polls where who you are this week is really who you are, and you can vote on that. It feels so true, and feelings are facts after all.

Get the irony of Tony Abbott referring to the ‘faceless men’. Who is he? He doesn’t know. Disappeared from himself when he was four by watching others: I’ll have one of those, and one of those, I’ll get rid of this, wow I’ll have two of those ~ how good will they be.

I’m amused by public personalities who take themselves seriously and never wake up that ambition is a bauble.

We have democracy [which isn’t democracy ~ read the Herald-Sun and The Age] because we cannot take a chance on a benevolent dictator. ‘Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely’.

Hands up those who think ‘my vote makes a difference’. My God some of those hands need a wash. What have you been stroking?

2013 July 03 14:14:21

Lostclarity,

Again, it matters not if opposition changes leaders, it in no way disrupts the country.

Labor leadership changes have caused many ministries to undergo administrative changes at an average of 1 per year since 2010. How can they possibly know what they are doing 2 months out from an election? Rudd got back in because backbenchers in marginal seats withdrew their support of the Gillard cabinet, some even threatened to run as independants. Their pensions were under threat and does anything else matter?

These things are not an issue in Opposition. Opposition is not obliged to the Commonwealth
in terms of transparency and accountability.
Paul Keating is the only Labor Prime Minister in 50 years to survive to an electoral removal. Every other one of them has been sacked. The last Liberal PM to be removed in office was John Grey Gorton.

Who would you say offers political stability?
A party who has had 2 PM's in 20 of the last 40 years, or a party who has had 5 PM's in 20 of the last 40 years? I doubt there is too much stringpulling going on in the Liberal party by underlings, the power of their leaders are proof of that.

2013 July 03 09:06:46

I think I can say, with a fair degree of certainty, that I know Campbell Newman better than anyone here.

Honest isn't a word that quickly comes to mind.

What he does have is an unwavering belief that he knows best about everything and everyone. Some would call that a strength I suppose.

And tell me this Count. The payrise (41%) that Mr Lister refers to, Campbell has come out today and said he didn't know about it because he is on holidays.

Do you believe him? Honestly?

2013 July 03 10:57:42

'I think I can say, with a fair degree of certainty, that I know Campbell Newman better than anyone here.'

This is an anonymous forum, Moley.
Anyone could say that, it means nothing and gives your opinion no more credibility than anyone elses.

2013 July 02 23:37:05

Geelong,
Fair Dinkum, you're like a broken record...Catholic Church..Bla Bla...Tony Abbott...Bla Bla..Little Johnnie...Bla Bla Rednecks...Bla..Bla Bla....Bla Bla Bla Bla

Every post you put up is identical to the previous, telling us that 99.9% of Australia's woes are due to the reasons above.

From now on just post the words 'What I always say' it will save you a lot of typing and spare anyone here who actually reads your repetitive waffle, a lot of wasted time.

quezacotl

2013 July 02 20:50:39

Macca you should have a beer with Gary Wilkinson...

Fair dinkum he was saying exactly what you were just on about, strangely I found myself agreeing with what he was predicting.

2013 July 02 23:55:56

Geelong . I think I recall someone referring to you as Mogadon. I now know why.
Some phenothiazine antipsychotic may help you
stop behaving like a retarded impersonator of Julius Sumner Miller.

Just let the 2013 election be the judge.

2013 July 03 11:52:29

Let the 2013 be the judge of what precisely Macca? You're not suggesting that it justifies the rubbish you've churned out on this thread surely?

You appear to have a simplistic notion of what elections determine - even if we ignore the patently obvious, that many voters don't have a clue about the policies, actions or achievements of their governments, and the effect our voting system has on representation (supression of minority views) - and an even more simplistic view of what politics can deliver to citizens. You've apparently been on this planet for many years - long enough I'd have thought to learn about the power of suggestion (aka in extreme forms 'propaganda') and the influence of the commercial press. History has many lessons - you've missed most of them it seems.

Next time you're at a loose end I suggest you look up 'the tyranny of the majority'. You unknowingly rail against it yourself at times - and for good reason. The fact that a majority voted for Ahmadinejad in Iran or Karzai in Afghanistan doesn't somehow confer wisdom on them or suggest that the majority wants or agrees with everything they do.

2013 July 03 11:32:59

A limp response even by your standards if I may say so Count. I think the forum can judge for itself what my posts say but I note in passing that you don't seem to find the childish (when actually comprehensible) rubbish which emanates from Macca's keyboard repetitive in the least. Within the confines of the forum I try to give some context to my arguments because it's plain that some haven't got a clue, have forgotten, or simply don't care (possibly due to lack of interest or time) about fact - not when you can substitute fiction (usually of others' making) in its place.

I would also note that it is not I who thinks Australia has great woes, but those who constantly whine, invariably without cogent argument, about us being laughing stocks with insurmountable economic woes and a "mess" created by a woman (alone apparently) so great it will take years of brilliance from those who know better to fix. It's interesting - vaguely - that whenever cons such as yourself are challenged to provide more then moronic sloganism you rarely rise to the occasion. Par for the course.

And not a mention of your decreed 3 no-go zones.

lostclarity

2013 July 03 10:37:10

How long did that take, maccamax? Your insight skill is a cent in the dollar.

Geelong63 was up in lights ~ I'll be fair ~ after his third post on here.

2013 July 02 16:05:20

Not that's it's of great concern given our record of passing them, but what precisely is being proposed in the LG referendum Macca? If your understanding of the British situation regarding Sharia Law is anything to go by you probably think it means local councils will be able to make laws and run shadow courts. Your horror at that possibility is entirely understandable - I can well imagine the sort of justice which might be meted out by redneck local govt officials in various parts of Queensland, I mean Australia. You don't have to watch commercial current affairs programs to know what a bunch of officious and vicious crooks they can be at times. Scary thought that we might be stuck with them come hell or high water.

As usual your "understanding" is at odds with reality but not to worry, only Gadsby will be surprised at that:
http://www.lawandreligionuk.com/2013/04/29/sharia-and-the-english-legal-system-the-governments-view/

2013 July 02 15:08:18

From the limited stuff I've read about Newman I think he's a decent bloke and might even make a good Premier, but it's standard fair for incoming conservative governments to blame their predecessors for everything they possibly can. Some of it may be justified but they cry wolf so often and with such hyperbole that only gullible fools take most of the rhetoric with anything more than a grain of salt. Read what analysts and commentators have to say if you want to get the "real" picture. Who can forget the NSW Libs claims about empty cupboards then magically finding a $billion which had been floating around the economic ether. In complete contrast we have new Labor governments which invariably just get on with dealing with what they have in front of them - in Rudd's case in 07 a decade of inaction and underspending on the health, infrastructure, education, and taxation fronts, just to name a few. The nation hasn't begun to claw back the legacy of middle and upper-class entitlement and welfare Little Johnnie and the world's greatest treasurer left us.

The economic position of states (and the commonwealth) is about far more than budget deficits as anyone with an an understanding of economic fundamentals knows. Structural deficits are far more important than fiscal deficits and a lack of investment in infrastructure, maintenance and renewal right across the policy area can be far worse than being a few $billion in the red for a decade. It's widely accepted that Howard benefited from Keating's structural changes and that he did a good job of fiscal management but a very average job in many other areas of economic development. There's only so much furniture a government can sell off.

Respected financial commentator Michael Pascoe offered some sage advice in yesterday's SMH. Recommended reading for most on here, but in your case Macca either give it a wide berth or take a heart pill beforehand and keep a face-washer handy (for the egg). For someone who talks about reality you seem to have more than a little trouble dealing with it.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/time-for-rudd-to-look-at-big-picture-20130701-2p7ev.html

2013 July 02 14:30:11

Count.....point of order.....Campbell Newman is as honest as they come? Epic Fail. His attacks on all watch dogs from the CMC to the Ombudsmen system; his rapid expansion of media monitors (Hello Boys in 111 George) and the throttling of all scrutiny and public disclosure obligations speak for themselves..........The plethora of straight faced pork pies rolled out prior to the election would have made Howard blush. Like Howard he could be one hell of a politician but don't anoint him with integrity please.

2013 July 02 14:18:02

MD I'm usually with your analysis of these matters but the Moodies AAA rating or (S & P for that matter) should all taken with a Lake Eyre of salt after their AAA rating of the toxic debt packages that ran the Capitalist system onto the rocks. Interestingly very little domestic commentary on the class actions unfolding against them overseas?

The reality of both sides of politics is there is constant assessment of numbers and a universal addiction to polling self driven or otherwise. Abbott rolled Turnbull.....business as usual...nothing to see here. Labor has traditionally enjoyed bringing their backroom stoushes into the street which never looks good and these days offers more potting mix to an increasingly right wing "popular" (for popular read vested interest corporate) press. Don't get me wrong Labor is still on a hiding to nothing with Abbott at Black Caviar odds but I find myself lamenting the sad loss of balanced journalism more and more. Is there a hack with a regular national profile that even vaguely represents left of centre views? and no Adams doesn't count.

CK

2013 July 02 00:26:45

I don't think Howard or Costello being upset over Peter missing out is an answer to this 6 years of labor predators feasting on each other like African animal predators. .
Look at Rudds new cabinet, Shorten and Wong didn't endear themselves in jumping ship and a grab at unknowns to warm a seat.
Why the huge emphasis on a record number of women. They don't run faster than men so why dream they do anything else better. . Does the World owe the Ladies something I'm not aware of. [ I fully realise women in numbers are handicapped in upper management by the family role Nature gave] but fair go Joe, Does Pasty Kevin think he deserves a medal.
I don't think the "Cater for the Feminists" goes over real well with most real ladies either. Didn't do much for Gillard.
This new shambles may do somewhat better, but remember, They are faced with picking up 10 seats already. Not Likely with desertions increasing by the day.

2013 July 01 22:37:40

This thread is right to highlight the rediculous leadership merry-go-round whilst in power which will continue to haunte Labor for some time, but you only have to go back to the Howard turnstile years to find a comparison albeit from the oppositon benches. Howard completed his PhD in skulldugerry during this period at the expense of Hewson and Downer which made him the most accomplished polititian of the 90s.........also the least honourable Prime Minister of our era. It will take a generation to recover our international reputation. Mr Abbott will only slow this repair.

2013 July 02 11:47:34

It doesn't matter if the Opposition Leader changes all the time, they aren't running the country. The reason leader-change in Govt is an issue is that it looks like string-pulling, non-transparent power calling the shots and manipulating voters and polls.

loges2

2013 June 30 12:53:54

Count. Poor decision to use Mark Latham as an example off his thoughts on Keven Rudd.
Latham is a loose cannon with a history of paying out on anyone who doesn't agree with his point of view,and few do!

cheers,loges.

2013 June 30 15:41:51

Loges,
There's quite a few ex-ministers who obviously share Latham's view.
It the reason they are now ex-ministers.

2013 June 30 17:45:32

Only the very naive or politically ignorant would suggest that within both "major" parties there isn't deep personal division and antipathy. Latham's 'personality problems' are well known inside and outside parliament and you're clutching at straws if you give his post-parliament character appraisals much more than a passing thought. Not because they are necessarily wrong but because they're tainted by the disappointment of his own failure.

Latham's no fool though. He got the cons down to a tee when called them a conga line of suckholes and talked about hating their phoniness, negativity, narrowness of mind, hypocrisy and lack of ideas and policies - beyond privatise it, sell it (for a song if necessary) and sit back and hope. Many, including this poster, would also agree with his (in)famous assessment(s) of Little Johnnie.

2013 July 01 10:53:33

'Only the very naive or politically ignorant would suggest that within both "major" parties there isn't deep personal division and antipathy'

In that case, perhaps you can give us some examples from past coalition governments of similar 'musical chair' ministries, mass resignations from politics and back-stabbings at the highest level that we've been seeing throughout this ALP government's last two terms.

2013 June 30 17:12:58

Whoever labels Kevin Rudd a Psychopath has excellent diagnostic skills.
He doesn't present as masculine to me . More like something you would find in a bag of flour . Is weevil the right word.?
Indonesia will be the financial winners as the bidding starts on the bounty for keeping their boats at home.
A bounce in popularity for labor is expected as it only had one direction to go after Gillard's demise. { Poor Julia only retires on $200000 a year and a driver for life ]
Truly Obscene and should have us rioting in the Streets. >>> Truly corruption.<<<
Hopefully Australia wouldn't return such a deceitful, disorganised mess to power.
300 Billion Dollar deficit. UNREAL.

2013 July 01 12:10:09

I see where Moody's has today reaffirmed Australia's AAA credit rating. What would they know hey Macca - far better to believe the hype of the innumerate Mad Monk, Boofhead Hockey and Waylon Smithers Pyne.

2013 July 01 17:16:37

I want you on my side if ever twister is played on the forum Count. My comment wasn't difficult to understand. Your question is a classic non-sequitur and reminiscent of Thatcher's comment to George Negus all those years ago - "can you name them" or words to that effect.

Nevertheless to answer your latest fishing expedition in general terms, significant changes to ministries when leaders change - whether govt or opposition - have been typical throughout modern political history. If you're suggesting otherwise then your rapier-like memory for racing is inversely proportional to your political recall. Here's just one example: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-09-14/abbott-orders-turnbull-to-demolish-nbn/2260320

Granted, the Parliamentary Labor Party, being more open and passionate about pretty much everything does it with more pizzaz and sometimes a good dab of venom, but occasionally the sharp silverware is brought out by the cons as well. Have you already forgotten the well-documented antipathy between Howard and Costello which finally reared it's head publicly when Howard lies about a leadership handover were leaked to the press? Their dislike of each other was legend in political circles long before - much like the Abbott-Hockey 'relationship'. Unlike Rudd, and Keating before him, Costello didn't have the balls to take Little Johnnie on and bide his time on the backbench if necessary, he wanted it handed to him on a platter. But as we know you don't get to wear the nation's crown jewels without having a collection of your own. Ironic that this flaw in his silver spoon character would prevent him from achieving his one great ambition. Four years of hard slog in opposition was not on Costello's agenda.

2013 July 01 23:14:58

Geelong,
You've come up extremely short if that was your best example of similar 'musical chair' ministries, mass resignations from politics and back-stabbings at the highest level.

Trying to compare Howard and Costello's relationship with the public Prime Ministerial back-stabbing of Rudd by Gillard and then Gillard by Rudd is kind of like trying to compare Bert and Ernie with Bonnie and Clyde.

You've got to be kidding!

2013 July 02 14:20:00

More twister Count? No, I wasn't kidding about anything, I was merely giving you one of many examples of what I originally described - personal animosity/antipathy among politicians on the same side. As I've already said you're fooling yourself and no-one else if you think "back stabbing" of leaders and shafting of competitors and adversaries is confined to Labor MPs.

Admittedly it was veiled but I gave you two reasons why back stabbing and "musical chairs" might be less restrained in Labor circles - principle, and cojones. Conservative politicians invariably have their eyes to the main chance and are more driven by their own interests, ergo they will do little to upset the applecart even when they loathe their leader with a vengeance.

Look up "John Howard lying rodent" - you'll no doubt be very surprised at who (allegedly) uttered the now famous words. Possibly the most accurate description ever of an incumbent PM by one of his own. By the way the lying rodent changed his ministry on a regular basis - about 30 in all in his 4 terms.

Ferguson, Smith, Combet and Gillard will be great losses to our parliament come September(?) and Emerson, Swan, and to a lesser extent Conroy a loss to the Labor front bench. That's in complete contrast to the dross currently occupying the Coalition shadow ministry - apart from Turnbull and Macfarlane who are no fools and will be/have been excellent reps at the highest level. I wouldn't give a cracker for the rest although one or two will hopefully surprise.

2013 July 01 16:09:21

Now that Rudd has put Albanese and Husic in charge of Broadband, absolute vigilance, transparency, and account is going to have to be taken of this. It's a lot of money for that sort.

2013 July 01 13:33:13

Howcome 3 out of the last 5 labor leaders have been overthrown by their own party for personal popularity issues? Don't they screen
their character before deciding to make them PM? Or are they known by their own party to be of a certain character and easier to manipulate?

2013 July 01 13:32:10

MD. AAA credit rating , great stuff. To help you further Australian Pensioners receive $80 a week more Than the American minimum wage.
We would all vote Labor if they get our prices like Petrol, Energy, Rents ,vehicle costs etc to compare with the USA.
Your rating is coming from the strong Banking numbers where our People are being robbed blind. Plus a shaky mining boom.
Labor having gone backwards toward 400 Billion since taking Office in 2007, your Moody AAA rating is as useful as a Tit on a Bull in the longer term.
Queensland's pain should tell you what happens when Labor sends us broke.

2013 July 01 23:18:08

Thought so, Macca knows better than the world's most credible credit rating agency. Amazing how, no matter what reputable organisations, economists, etc say in the positive as to how Labor have managed the economy, rusted on Coalition voters will always believe those with no credibility on their preferred side of politics. Rest assured though, any praise from these organisations to a Coalition Govt is thoroughly deserved.

Qld's pain is more through electing an absolute peanut in Newman - I would have thought in all your years you would have learnt that conservative Govts will always blame the supposedly hideous levels of debt left by Labor as an excuse to cut funding to essential services. What they really need those savings for is their usual middle class vote buying and protecting their obese mates like Titanic Palmer and Gina the Hutt.

Hands N Heels

2013 July 02 13:22:41

MD,

Just to be clear about credit ratings as they have been applied to the Australian economy, Australia has been downgraded 4 times since they have been applied (twice each by two agencies). All 4 downgrades were during the Hawke-Keating years.

Australia has been upgraded 6 times in the same period (twice each by the all three agencies, Fitch having first applied its rating in 1996). 5 were during terms of office by the Coalition, 1 during an ALP term (Fitch - Nov 2011).

2013 July 02 12:40:04

MD,
You couldn't be more wrong.
Clive Palmer loved Campbell Newman before the last election, but ask Clive what he thinks of him now, and why he thinks that way.

Campbell Newman is as honest as they come.

As for the decisions he's made since being elected, well, financial basket-cases like Queensland can't be turned around overnight.
We knew there would be some pain.

It's a long road back to get Queensland back in the black and all Quenslanders are aware of the devestating mess that Labor left for the Newman govt to clean-up.

Most Queenslanders aren't expecting miracles, but we do expect to see some positive results before the next election and that's when I'll give my opinion on whether this State Govt is doing a good job or not.

2013 July 02 11:22:31

Campbell Newman is another example of "only in Qld".

A bloke with no political experience at State or Federal level, who didn't even hold a seat, was elected in as Premier.

2013 July 02 13:29:21

Lister,
Here in Queensland, we've seen what experienced politicians can do, they sent the state broke, they tried to fix the unemployment rate by hiring more and more public servants. The hospital payroll debacle is a billion dollar headache for the Newman Govt and there's still no fix for it.

So please, don't talk about 'experienced' politicians.

2013 July 02 11:10:09

MD. Your a laugh a minute. Have you ever been employed in the Public Service. . Hide out for the unemployed [along with the subsidised car industry] . Newman was faced with a Bankrupt State. On your theory that wasn't the case because Moody says so. You need a bit of reality in your tank. Abbott will be forced to do the same with a 300 billion deficit and climbing. I hope you do your own household budget better than the Labor camp or your paying about 20% on your credit card and over $500 a week rent. Moody says that's AAA. . Go for it , If your happy you shouldn't have put Julia on the Pension.

2013 July 02 12:16:26

Macca, yet again you've clearly demonstrated your economic ignorance. Running an economy is not the same as a household or even a small business. There's the small matter of global influences - something which I know your lot seem to think is irrelevant. I guess its no surprise you don't understand this given whose rhetoric you base your opinions on, but a $ figure on its own means nothing without factoring size of economy and, most importantly for the likes of Moody's, the ability to repay. I'm sure many Euro countries and the US would be quite elated with a $300bn debt! Perhaps you should stick to what you know, such as women's rights, racism, etc.

In answer to your question, no I have never worked for the public service - came out of Uni in '89 with an economics degree and worked in the financial services sector ever since, all for listed companies.

2013 July 02 13:48:35

MD. Chivas said enough but with you in finance I understand the mess.
---------
GOODBYE Kevin,, BOO BOO 3 ... The first Muslim to the front bench , Husic , no doubt a great guy. Along with the most Women. But Labors undying support for a YES at their Local Government Referendum requires the Public be aware:- .It is critical that all people oppose (vote NO) to the proposed change to recognise local govt in the constitution at the referendum at the Sept election. By local govt areas being recognised then Sharia law can be demanded in the local area based on the % of Muslim people in that local area. This is exactly how the Muslims obtained sharia law recognised in UK.
The thin end of the wedge , aye Kevin

2013 July 02 19:02:43

And now in sunny Qld we are hearing that Mr Newman and his LNP buddies have lifted a freeze on MP's salaries giving them an immediate 41% pay rise. The same LNP that has been denying scores of public sector workers a pay rise for over a year. And they claim fiscal reasons for screwing everything down since they got in. Typical politicians.

fatjack

2013 July 03 09:09:39

Lister,
Shame, Shame, Shame

Your last offering is exactly why I continue to be a swinging voter and not a rusted on Liberal or Labor Party Brainwashed Dolt.

You have been very loose with the truth regarding the Qld MPs pay increase.
It has nothing to do with Campbell Newman or the Libs.

IT IS THE LAW that has insisted that the pay increase MUST go through.

The Lib/Nationals are trying to do everything they can to ensure all politicians do not get any more from this compulsory decision delivered by the HIGH Court.

It was Anna Blight who actually broke the Law and caused the whole problem in the first place.

Unfortunately it's left to we swingers to guard our Nations best interests and hopefully make the right decision based on what is best for all of us for the long term. That's why Anna Blight got kicked out on her ear, we swingers gave it to her in spades, she's even left the state and I believe working for NSW Libs in some role?

At least with Krudd in control it's not going to be a landslide and the Senate will not be won in majority by the Libs.
I loved what Stephen Lawrence said on Q& A Monday night, Kevin Rudd is the Outsiders Insider and I think that's absolutely spot on and the Labor factions now have to realise that is why he is so popular with the average person in the street, they don't see him as beholding to any faction, left, right or Calathumpian he is his own man and does appear to be making the best decision even if they might not be right in the short term.
Who knows he may even get up, if the Rabbit puts his foot in a trap of some sort laid by Malcolm(if he was leader Libs would definitely win) or himself.
Let's just say there are a lot of Coalition MPs including mine who I know very well, who are now very nervous after thinking it was only going to be a matter of turning up on election day.
It's going to be a very close election, at present I would rather be with Krudd mainly because I fear Tony Rabbit and I cannot tolerate his main supporters, the only one I can see has any real substance is Julie Bishop, his male Head Honchos all come across as bottom of the class private school wannabes?
Cheers
FJ

2013 July 03 12:26:16

Fair enough FJ.

Luckily for you I won't be so "loose" on what you have said.

Re; "Unfortunately it's left to we swingers".

That could conjure up some very sordid and sweaty images.

I'll leave it alone though.

2013 July 03 13:49:52

"That said, he left that Council in an enormous hole of debt, spending jaw-dropping amounts of money on projects that haven't worked...and he walked away from his post in the middle of the night without telling anyone.

The Council is still sacking staff to this day to claw their way back. No-one there has any respect for his legacy....none."

Surely not! But we've been told, by no lesser genius than Maccamax, that its always Labor that leaves massive debt, etc. Count is right, who knows who knows Newman best on an anonymous forum - so we can only judge what we see and hear, and he seems a nasty piece of work to me.

bettowin

2013 July 04 21:47:28

Really we talking state politics now to back up labor federally , lol gold .

2013 July 05 08:11:45

I'm not bettowin.

Was just having my whinge about polis in general.
The state example I gave is topical in Vic at the moment.
They are all dispicable people with few exceptions.

I don't like any of them just as much as I don't like people believing the bullish.. they are fed by them.

2013 July 05 00:47:20

Must admit it is sickening to see Politicians getting these wages and perks while some other members of the workforce are struggling .
Remember Lawyers, Doctors etc ask the world for their services too. Thieves in too many cases.
Teachers , Nurses , Police , Fireman are better off than most of the workforce. If the Unions have priced some of them out of work , stiff Chit. .Newman handles that as he has no other choice.
[ Women Police hahahahaha ]
Like antelopes hunting Lions.
Teachers work about 4 months of the year. Before the masses on here start telling me about all the after hours work and preps. they do , save yr breath . I was married to one.
Gough Whitlam gave the Nurses [ and all other Public servants, Penalty rates , extended holiday leave etc . They aren't too badly off. He also gave pensions to inmates of Institutions and insisted they not be allowed to do anything workwise that paid labour could be paid to do. [ like be a bit self sufficient ]
We all know now how that ended , The Schedule 5 System folded as we couldn't afford it and many 1000's have lost their life as a result.
I see a type of repeat action now with Labor again pushing a vote catcher along similar lines.
This is a replay of the Whitlam demise. The gossip is heaven Kevin will do miracles but like Whitlam on election day .. He gets wiped out.
Rudd's [ Chamberlain ] [ speech this week will be humour at it's best.

2013 July 02 23:15:09

Lister,
Once again you've got the bull by the tail.
The Crown Solicitor warned the State Government that Queensland MPs current pay rate was unlawful because the Bligh Govt froze MPs wages in 2009.

This pay rise brings Qld MPs pay in line with other states MPs who's salaries are determined by the independant statuatory authority.

They have no choice as their pay rate was deemed illegal.
I doubt the Labor politicians up here will be knocking back the $57,000 windfall.

2013 July 03 12:19:04

I will stand corrected.

The workers bring denied wont see it that way.
Nor will the thousands that lost their jobs.

2013 July 02 15:45:17

I doubt you understand much actually Macca - but you just go on believing the incredibly simplified mantra of deficit = bad, surplus = good (even if the latter dcomes at the expense of stripping funding to Health, Education, Infrastructure, etc). Economists the world over disagree with you but one has to have an understanding of numbers before grasping this concept - your hero the Opposition Leader clearly does not (if his mate and former Treasurer is correct anyhow).

2013 July 02 15:00:24

Good answer Count.

It still wouldn't happen anywhere else. Right or wrong.

fatjack

2013 June 30 17:01:03

I'm absolutely wrapped in this week's result, makes all the emails to all the Labor Politicians I sent very worthwhile, 90% of them are taking their bats and going home, about bloody time I reckon.

I've even had a very nice financial windfall and it was worth getting up early two weeks ago to catch The Insiders, where Barry Cassidy dropped a very strong hint that he had it on good authority that there would be a move to Rudd and that it was likely he'd get up(in hindsight I'd say he was talking to Shorty).
Anyway when I heard it I got straight on to betfair and took all the $4.50 down to $3.60 that was available, hopefully unless Krudd gets run over by a bus I'll have a nice collect.

I doubt that Krudd can win the election for them, he's still a chance, it's the Rabbits to lose, I've got a small bet going that Turnbull might still be opposition leader at the next election but it will probably be a dual Rabbit premiership, unfortunately. I absolutely detest Rabbit, Whiner, Ocky strap and Canardly speak.

We live in interesting times.

Cheers
FJ

2013 June 30 08:53:14

Former ALP leader Mark Latham was a guest panelist on the ABCs Q & A program a couple of weeks ago and didn't hold back on how he sees Rudd and the ALP.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/kevin-rudd-in-the-realm-of-evil-says-mark-latham-20130610-2o0ia.html

2013 July 01 10:47:44

Ohh my God . The Lady like Kevin has announced his new Front Bench Team.
Loved The choice of words , " Largest number of Women in a Cabinet To be HEADED by Penny WONG "
I " Cracked Up " Pun Intended.
Who better for a Head Job.
Staggering Stuff this C Team.

oldhand

2013 June 30 14:55:46

Loges2,
Agree with you!

Not a good example Count.
Looking at Latham's track record it is desperate journalism using what he says for a story about Kevin2013; there is an old saying that people in glass houses should not throw stones.
Some people must have a high opinion of Rudd seeing the results of the latest polls.
Of the mob that have bailed out just because they could not get their own way before and have spat out their dummys, well in my opinion who need them.
Australia needs a devisive government like a hole in the head which ever party gets to govern

2013 June 30 14:51:46

Count, Latham is about as credible as Barnaby Joyce!

Despite the bounce in the polls for the ALP under K-Rudd, the Coalition will still win very easily.